Podcast Episode #472
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Leadership in the church tends to fall to those who are either the loudest or who want it the most instead of who is spiritually mature enough to handle it. Today we explore why this happens and how to avoid it.
Some highlights from today’s episode include:
- We see many people in leadership in the church not because they are mature Christians, but because they make the most noise.
- Don’t reward church bullies with leadership positions in the church.
- If church members are not committed to the financial stewardship the church, they probably shouldn’t be in leadership positions in the church.
- Low expectation churches are typically the ones that struggle to find leaders or volunteers for ministry.
The six reasons we discuss are:
- The noisy get rewarded.
- The bullies get rewarded.
- No one checks the giving records.
- Some try to use the church for power they don’t have outside the church.
- The church is a low expectation church.
- Leadership is not rotated.
Resources mentioned in today’s podcast
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Personally, I also think it is a corporate mentality. In HR, I often saw organizations promote people because they do their job really well and then put them in a position with more responsibility. They don’t necessarily have the right people skills to manage others well and they don’t get the training to do so. So they make a lot of mistakes and, as with a lot of people with power, they become bullies because they’re just not sure how else to handle conflict. It’s a mix of immaturity and a lack of solid teaching. Same in the church.
Thanks, Robin. A book was written on that a few decades ago, The Peter Principle.
For many small churches. most should close, it is a matter of what you have is what you have and you use what you have. Only have one or two members that minimum requirements for a deacon and you need two them immature or not they become deacons and in some cases deacons for life.
Easiest thing in the world is to rise to leadership in a church without a pastor and then secure your position because the church documents are flawed or vague. That is why so many end up with little dictators that take the church in a wrong direction or split is so bad that they are limping along until they die.
Hi Thom,
As usual, great podcast!
In it you asked a very good question, why Church leadership does evaluate giving records as a spiritual discipline.
In my opinion it is a reaction to the abuses by the televangelists of all stripes. Any mention of finances risks being painted by the same broad brush as those hucksters.
Also, it is considered a barrier to the unchurched who use the excuse, ‘It’s all about the money’
Another possible reason is the expectation of absolute confidentiality regarding giving.
Just my opinion.
But it should not be possible to buy one’s way into leadership. We have all seen it happen though.
Ron, you raise some good points here. I think this is why teaching about stewardship as discipleship and spiritual discipline is key. I would also argue that it’s not about the “amount” given as the “heart” with which it is given (Mark 12:41-44). So I think you and I would agree that while looking at giving records is one tool, it is not the only tool.
I served a church where the two pastors gave more than the entire church board combined (9 members)! That was a red flag that our leaders weren’t invested in the life of the congregation (because I guarantee many of those board members had salaries that dwarfed the pastors’).
Another reason is that the current leaders believe the selectee will vote “properly” and think like they do. I call this self-perpetuating leadership. They do not want someone who will think and speak up or out. Evangelical church leadership is one place where some people no matter how good will never enter.
Help me with #3. I’ll provide a little context from my church/denomination in explanation. There are two people who know how much a person gives to the church: that person and the Treasurer. While I, as Pastor, can know I choose not to for a number of reasons – everyone gets treated the same whether they give $100 or $2,000 a month. The only report I get is a head’s up from the treasurer if something appears amiss with a person fulfilling their pledge – mostly because there may be a pastoral issue to be addressed.
As our national Church Canon state, to be in leadership a person must “be known to the Treasurer.” There is no direction about how much rather that they are invested in the life of the Church.
Do you mean that a person can only be in leadership if they give a lot/tithe (what does that term mean too)? Or is it simply enough to be one who pledges and makes offerings?
If I had my druthers, I wouldn’t want the biggest givers in leadership positions. I have seen times when that creates an entitlement mentality or worse a Country Club mentality.
Les –
The issue is not about the amount, but the consistency of faithful giving. Stewardship is an act of discipleship. You would not want a zero giver in a position of leadership. It’s a train wreck.
Thom –
Thank you for clarifying for me. I was fairly certain that was what you meant. I think part of my difficulty is I come from a faith tradition that has oft times archaic language like “known to the Treasurer” as a qualification for membership. In the founding years of the denomination that had a very specific (England) meaning.
Les
If I visited a church and they asked for a pledge for giving I would walk out the door and never return. I’ve heard of all kinds of gimmicks to separate christians from their christian dollars. It’s not the amount. If what you give is a sacrifice to you and is given with a cheerful heart God is pleased.
But Eddie, how would you expect that the lights and heat were paid for if the church does not have any sort of budget? The staff? The Sunday school curriculum? All of these things require money, and you can’t just “guess you will be ok!” We hope for people to pledge, only the treasurer knows the amount, and the church calendar and programs are determined by that number. There is no gimmick, we are not “prosperity gospel” people, but it just takes money to keep the church alive!
You have missed the mark here. The true church is not a building. The church is us, the people. The focus should never be on the institution, nor was the church created to prop up those inside and neglect those outside. The church was called to go outside the 4 walls where Jesus always performed his ministry. The biblical church never used tithes to “keep the lights on.” No, the tithes went to people in need. My, how the church has strayed.
But without a physical location, even one that is rented, how are Christians formed and nourished? It can’t be about creating an edifice that is the body of Christ (the living church) but there is a need for a physical place for worship and education.
I think you miss what a pledge is. Just like giving to PBS a parishioner’s pledge is their intention for giving. As Kim said, without a promise to give there is no way to know if, when the electricity bill comes, you’ll be able to pay the bills.
Really helpful stuff again! I have noticed another reason that seems pretty common. It happens in an established church because someone in the immature leader’s family was mature and well respected and connected and so it was assumed that being related to them meant they too were capable and mature when they were clearly not. Then the rotation issue comes into effect.
They are often in those positions because no one want to serve.
I beg to differ. There are lots of people who would be willing to do it and capable, but they can’t be/aren’t allowed to.
I think most have not keyed on the concept of having *immature* leaders as opposed to mature leaders.
How many churches are purposefully working to build the newer Christians–both men and women–into mature Christians so that they CAN be acceptable leaders? I fear so many pastors struggle with survival of the churches themselves, their ministries and their tenure at the church, they don’t have the time to do the purposeful work 1-on- 1 with the potential leaders.
Not offering excuses nor condemnations here; just pointing out the observations. Leadership should be the outgrowth of maturity.
Ah, me……! By their fruit you will know them.
Can it be that churches ‘get’ what they ‘produce’…….?
Can you tell me how much 11 copies of the book Autopsy of a Dying Chich would cost?
Is a pastor, whose income comes from the Church and from the giving, expected to give money back to the Church? If not, how does it square up with not wanting people who give zero in leadership positions?
My feeling is if not me then whom? If I can’t live a tithe by giving from the first fruits then how can I expect anyone to do the same.
The funny thing is my parish was surprised that I tithed to the church. Why? I don’t know.
Thanks for this answer, Les. It really puts it in perspective.