ThomRainer.com

Thom Rainer is the Founder and CEO of Church Answers

  • Home
  • About
  • Blog
  • Resources
  • Books
  • Podcasts
    • Rainer on Leadership
    • Revitalize & Replant
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Instagram
  • RSS

June 14, 2018 57 Comments

Is Our Denomination Dying? – Revitalize & Replant #045

SUBSCRIBE TODAY: iTunes • RSS • Stitcher • TuneIn Radio • Google Play

Recorded at the LifeWay breakfast during this week’s SBC Annual Meeting, this special episode of Revitalize & Replant examines the Southern Baptist Convention and its future, what it needs to change, and how the emphasis for health rests on the local church.

Episode Highlights:

  • In too many churches, we’ve become disunified and distracted because we’ve lost our focus on the Great Commission.
  • A denominational problem is ultimately a collection of local church problems.
  • 15 years ago, growth in our churches was easier. Today, the decline of cultural Christianity has made it much more difficult.
  • Church outreach needs to be effective and ongoing.

The six issues relevant to the health of the SBC that we discuss are:

  1. A perspective from 14 years ago
  2. The disunified and distracted church
  3. The disunified and distracted denomination
  4. The local church issue: the slow death of evangelism and outward focus
  5. The challenges of ministry training and theological education
  6. A future unknown

Resources mentioned in this episode include:

  • ChurchReplanters.com
  • ChurchAnswers.com
  • Replanter Assessment
  • Find more resources at the Revitalize & Replant page at ThomRainer.com
Revitalize & Replant is sponsored by the North American Mission Board and ChurchReplanters.com. More than 10% of churches in North America are at risk of closing and the North American Mission Board is committed to reversing this trend by decreasing the death rate of existing churches while simultaneously increasing the birth rate of new churches. To learn more about what it means to become a replanting pastor or to explore resources for replanting and revitalization in your own church, visit ChurchReplanters.com.

Submit Your Question:

Do you have a question about church revitalization or replanting for us to use on the podcast? Visit the podcast page to submit your question. If we use it on the show, you’ll get a copy of Autopsy of a Deceased Church and Reclaiming Glory.

Related

Comments

  1. D a vi d Tro u blef ield, D Min says

    June 14, 2018 at 2:40 am

    If it is (SBC dying), then it is despite 50 million more people living in the US today than during 1995.

    The SBC has not had effective leadership for more than 40 years. Effective organizational leadership does not permit a body to reach the state the SBC has been in during this time without major-major attention paid to it. Even at that, the SBC is a membership nonprofit organization with limitations on how it interacts with its members (local congregations); it can choose its members–and they can choose either for or against it, and take their CP contributions with them if they go. That calls for even more effective leadership. Challenging, to say the least.

    Reply
    • Rev. Vincent O Gonzalez, Sr. says

      June 14, 2018 at 7:51 am

      The SBC has been so concerned with the “conservative resurgence” and “denominational purity” that it has driven many members away. A large majority of SBC youth and young adults think the denomination has got it all wrong when it comes to LGBTQ rights and marriage equality (I agree). Rather than take a biblical view in the whole too many pastors and leaders proof text to support their own prejudices, biases and, frankly, ignorance. Let’s decide what we want to say we believe and then go find scripture fragments to back it up. It’s time to truly end biblical illiteracy.

      Reply
      • Craig Giddens says

        June 14, 2018 at 8:51 am

        How do propose to end biblical illiteracy?

        Reply
        • Mark says

          June 14, 2018 at 2:13 pm

          Teach Jesus every Sunday from the pulpit.

          Reply
          • Craig Giddens says

            June 15, 2018 at 8:18 am

            Your answer illustrates the problem. Jesus’ earthly ministry was primarily to the nation of Israel. In the Old Testament God promised an earthly kingdom to Israel. Jesus came as their long awaited Messiah to bring in the kingdom, but the nation as a whole rejected Him. The early portion of the book of Acts (1-7) is the account of God giving Israel another chance to repent, but when they killed Stephen, God set the nation aside and raised up the Apostle Paul to go to the Gentiles. To Paul was given the fullest revelation about the body of Christ. God is still going to bring the kingdom to Israel, but for the time being He is working through the church (the body of Christ). Jesus’ earthly ministry in the Gospels was to Israel. His heavenly ministry is now through the church. So are you teaching Jesus from the perspective of His earthly ministry to Israel or are you teaching Jesus from His heavenly ministry to the church? In all of the comments no one has said anything about what Jesus is telling us through the Apostle Paul. If you don’t distinguish between Jesus’ earthly ministry and His heavenly ministry you will have error and confusion (which is what we have now).

      • Charles says

        June 14, 2018 at 10:49 am

        Rev. Vincent, do I understand you are saying the youth and young adults have a better understanding of the Holy Scriptures then the pillars of the Church? Perhaps they exhibit more love, more tolerance, but then tolerance goes both ways.
        We are to love the drunk, the gay, the pedophile, etc. but encourage behavior that is in keeping with a proper understanding of “Love thy neighbor.”

        Reply
  2. D a vi d Tro u blef ield, D Min says

    June 14, 2018 at 2:51 am

    …And, until the Great Commandment is experienced in the hearts of the SBC’s churches, the Great Commission will not be experienced in the streets of its cities. Evangelism is the first of three expressions of the local church’s two biblical functions (love God; love people). The SBC did not need a “Conservative Resurgence” (per its peace committee of 1979 or after)–it needed a Great Commandment Emergence that sustained Great Commission-related efforts. Per the history of it all as seen from today’s perspective.

    Reply
    • CN Blackwell says

      June 14, 2018 at 7:56 am

      Well said

      Reply
    • Dennis Cagle D. Min. says

      June 14, 2018 at 8:09 am

      Without the conservative resurgence, we would have already passed the point of no return down the road of theological error. Those men who led that charge were “hot-hearted” for souls and led in soul winning. The cracks in the floor may be many, but returning to an embrace of an inerrant, infallible, inspired Word was not the problem.

      Reply
      • Mark Smith says

        June 14, 2018 at 8:31 am

        If the Bible is just a book stitched together by some good men about an even better man, then all there is is a Great Suggestion.

        Reply
      • Da vi d Tr oub le fie ld, D Mi n says

        June 14, 2018 at 10:32 am

        Not to re-hash history here, but: If memory serves, the SBC peace committee reported it could not find enough theological liberals among us to fill the bed of one Ford F250.

        The problem was not theological liberalism. The SBC at that time was made up 99.99% of theological fundamentalists (me included) who also were either political moderates (“You answer to God, brother”) or political fundamentalists (“You answer to me, brother”). As an elected member of the Missouri Baptist Convention trustee board, I watched “from the inside” that body come apart at it seams until two weak religious bodies resulted. Everyone was theologically conservative; political fundamentalists (“You answer to me, brother”) sought to take over the convention and managed to do so after the political moderates (“You answer to God, brother”) left with their CP contributions. Secular news reporters present for MBC convention meetings could not believe what they were hearing Baptists say to each other; the message those reporters got was, “Hey! We’re coming to tell you about Jesus just as soon as we get our house in order!” but the house split.

        A “conservative resurgence” is OK if/when it is needed; but without a “Great Commandment Emergence,” anything conservative is going nowhere for long. Today: 72% of all SBC congregations in the US–including many/most of those leading the “conservative resurgence” charge–are plateaued/declining in terms of their biblical growth.

        Reply
        • Mark Smith says

          June 14, 2018 at 2:27 pm

          Well, I’ve heard other people tell different stories about theological liberals at the seminaries. I think most of the focus of the so-called Conservative Resurgence regarded the seminaries.

          Reply
        • Gavin Croft says

          June 15, 2018 at 5:49 am

          I do not pretend to be an expert, but there was major concern starting in the 1960’s all the way to the late 80’s early 90’s of liberal theology in SBC seminaries.
          A quick Google search can find articles and eye-witness testimony easily:
          *The controversy erupted at Midwestern in 1961 when Ralph Elliott, the chair of the Old Testament department, authored a book published by Broadman Press titled “The Message of Genesis.”
          Elliott used a historical-critical method of interpretation to examine the first book of the Bible, arguing that it was not literal history, but that it could be religious truth nonetheless. Elliott assumed multiple authors for Genesis and concluded it was full of “symbolic stories” not to be taken as “literally true,” such as: Adam and Eve were not actual historical figures, the flood was local, and Abraham did not actually hear the voice of God commanding him to sacrifice Isaac.
          *A relatively small group of openly liberal congregations split away in 1987 to form the Alliance of Baptists. With more than 2,000 individual members in 2010, 32 domestic and international mission partners, and 130 affiliate congregations the Alliance is an organization of Baptists promoting what they call progressive theologies, radical inclusivity, justice-seeking, ecumenism, and mission partnerships around the world.
          *In 1990, another schism occurred in which a large number of moderate congregations formed the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (CBF), originally organized as a “convention within the convention” to support causes not controlled by the majority within the SBC.

          Some CBF churches ordain both men and women as clergy,[34] and support theological seminaries which directly sponsor and which support the liberal biblical interpretations of the CBF. As of 2018 there were approximately 1,800 churches affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship.
          If there was no problem, then why were there major splits in the denomination?

          Reply
          • Da vid Trou blefi eld , DM in says

            June 15, 2018 at 10:46 am

            Just going by the report of the Peace Committee.

            Even if the six SBC seminaries employed a total of 2000 teaching staffers at the time (doubtful) and all of them were judged actually to be theological liberals, the group of them would have represented .013% of all Southern Baptists. Options still would be two: (1) split the convention; or, (2) fire the liberal seminary profs. Do you remember the option chosen?

            (Me: SWBTS MDivBL, and happy theological fundamentalist–but also very concerned about effective, godly organizational administration maintaining a healthy Christian church on mission with God in a lost and dying world; cf. again: today, 72% of all US SBC churches plateaued/declining in terms of their biblical growth)

        • Captain Cassidy says

          September 17, 2018 at 7:08 pm

          Very much so. I’ve been following the history of the Conservative Resurgence. It seems like it was a reaction to three forces gaining traction at a rate that must have panicked the Christian leaders of their day: the Sexual Revolution (including LGBT rights), the Civil Rights Movement, and feminism. Those forces butted heads with the white male supremacist faction of the SBC. I noticed with great interest how quickly those architects slammed the door shut on all three movements.

          The peak they reached after pandering to the worst elements in their group couldn’t last forever. They just assumed it would.

          The SBC wants a Republic of Gilead, and to get it they are driving out every single moderating force in their group. Fine, let them have their Gilead. But they will revel with an ever-shrinking company.

          They can’t fix it, either. That’s the hilarious part. They can’t pull back on the -isms they’ve built into their hill to die on. If they do, they’ll enrage their only remaining customer base of sexist, racist, bigoted authoritarians. Those people will leave immediately to find groups willing to pander to them. The SBC’s leaders have absolutely assured that this will happen by teaching generations of SBC members that ANY change in their cherished -isms is “compromise,” and thus cannot be brooked. But even if they tried, there’s no assurance that those they’ve driven off would return to balance out the enraged bigots who would leave.

          If the SBC wasn’t so stone-cold evil, I’d almost feel sorry for them. They played a long con, and the piper’s at the door demanding payment. If this was a reality TV show, I wouldn’t even believe this build-up. It’ll be an interesting next five years for them. I will say this though: nothing shows the SBC for what it is more clearly than how they’re handling their decline. Nothing divine informs this group. I wouldn’t even say anything *good* does. It’s just a group of grifters and white supremacists, all tin-gods and cargo-cultists, shrieking into the wind and grabbing for whatever they can get before the jig is finally up.

          Reply
      • C. Williams says

        June 14, 2018 at 12:31 pm

        This is what I was thinking.

        Reply
      • Linda says

        June 19, 2018 at 3:23 pm

        Amen brother!

        Reply
    • Craig Gidden says

      June 14, 2018 at 11:55 am

      You can’t love God unless you love His word.

      Reply
      • Captain Cassidy says

        January 21, 2019 at 1:08 pm

        Let us know if you ever work out exactly what “His word” says and means. Nobody’s managed to do that in 2000 years of Christianity. Also let us know if you ever work out how to tell if you “love His word” or not, or if someone else does, because it’s painfully easy for hypocrites to fool you lot–and from the way you treat those who leave your ranks, it’s even easier for you to tell, after the fact and from simply a comment, if someone else did or not.

        You’re just attempting to out-Jesus everybody else. You have no more idea what’s going on than anybody else does, and no way to quantify or qualify exactly what you mean by that.

        Reply
  3. Kathie Kania says

    June 14, 2018 at 7:28 am

    Well, part of the decline in attendance is tiredness from church car washes, banquets, we-need-a-bigger-church-and-new-carpet money squeezing, rummage sales, and all of that strife for money.

    And I see (and agree with) anger of the unchurched who are flabbergasted at the dewy-eyed love for Trump, ignoring his escapades, while still raging at Obama, whose background was pure.

    Reply
    • Jay says

      June 14, 2018 at 7:48 am

      Kathy Kania, Donald Trump nor Obama have not had any impact on the state of the SBC and have nothing to do with the article. No need to make your comments a political platform.

      Reply
      • Kathie Kania says

        June 15, 2018 at 7:32 am

        Don’t be ridiculous – of COURSE it’s had an impact. That’s what I’m hearing from the unsaved right now. Or don’t you associate with them?

        Reply
    • dennis cagle says

      June 14, 2018 at 8:11 am

      Pure? You’re kidding, right?

      Reply
      • Kathie Kania says

        June 15, 2018 at 7:39 am

        Morally, what did they find? Nothing.

        Reply
    • Jim says

      June 14, 2018 at 8:36 am

      Allowing pence to give a stump speech is all the evidence you need.

      Reply
  4. Jim says

    June 14, 2018 at 7:40 am

    I think you have Jesus confused with Donald T and Mike Pence.

    Reply
  5. Phil Hoover says

    June 14, 2018 at 8:09 am

    The American church at large must remember this:

    JESUS gave the GREAT COMMANDMENT long before He gave the Great Commission. “Loving God and loving each other” MUST be the foundation of “Go into all the world and make disciples.” The outside world is watching how those on the “inside” relate to each other. Do they see something inviting, enticing, and something they want in their own lives? Or is it more of the same stuff, but with a religious-sounding, thinly-veiled label?

    Reply
    • Tom Harper says

      June 14, 2018 at 10:05 am

      Phil, Amen & Amen!!

      Reply
    • Captain Cassidy says

      September 17, 2018 at 7:21 pm

      Blew my mind to discover, years after my deconversion, that Bible scholars generally agree that “the Great Commission” was a later addition to the Bible. The earliest fragments of it that we have don’t mention it at all. What a hoot, huh? It’s the verse that Christians use the most often as a permission slip to behave in reprehensible ways–to “lie for Jesus,” to trample other people’s boundaries, to sneak their indoctrination tools into public schools and past parents, and worse. The ends justify any means, to way too many sales-minded Christians.

      When I was Christian, I was married to a pathological liar who’d fooled me–and also everybody in our church’s leadership. He had a “testimony” that was, like most bombastic testimonies, 99% fabricated. When I heard it in full for the first time, shortly after our wedding, I was horrified and humiliated. I told him that night that if he ever told it around me again, I’d out him immediately as a liar. And I’m the one who got yelled at by him and all our mutual friends for potentially damaging his recruitment efforts. I didn’t care. I held firm, and he didn’t lie to people in my earshot ever again. But they were all very tetchy at me over my stance.

      Now imagine what Christianity would look like if more Christians cared about doing that hard stuff Jesus told them to do than they do about trying to make sales! The few times I’ve run into someone like that, they got dogpiled by their more sales-minded pals because genuinely loving people wasn’t “saving” them from Hell. Well, those nasty critics are not making sales either, so I reckon they’re failing BOTH the Great Commission and the Great Command. Not my problem, but it does amuse me that the SBC’s stated reaction to their failures on both counts is to drill down harder on trying to make sales. What’s the definition of insanity, again?

      Reply
  6. Jim Watson says

    June 14, 2018 at 8:12 am

    Decline is accelerated when the NAMB allows funds for home missions collected from member churches to be disbursed for the creation of new church plants at the expense of existing missions already in the field. When you allow such abuses to occur, it is not surprising that decline results. The SBC needs to get its house in order from the bottom up (where it will have the greatest impact) instead of from the top down (where the changes are largely symbolic).

    Reply
  7. Pastor says

    June 14, 2018 at 8:34 am

    Conservatives need not cave in to pressure for change: either from society or from pastors inside the denomination. The Bible is the Word of God. Jesus is the only Savior. Gay marriage is wrong (How can anyone, unchurched or a pastor, not see this?). Abortion is wrong. Also fornication and adultery are wrong.

    Having said all of this, the church has a lot of problems: an unwillingness (with many churches) to accept other races inside its doors, an inward focus, no desire to get out into the communities (from many churches, not all), petty divisions and strifes, arguing endlessly on topics that aren’t important.

    I say, “Continue to take a stand on the Bible, but know this: The unchurched are not going to come inside your doors until they see a caring for them. Churches have to reach out into the community and those who refuse to and don’t will close their doors in the next 2-3 decades.”

    Reply
    • Pastor says

      June 14, 2018 at 8:37 am

      Conservatives need not cave in to pressure for change: either from society or from pastors inside the denomination. The Bible is the Word of God. Jesus is the only Savior. Gay marriage is wrong (How can anyone, unchurched or a pastor, not see this? The Bible says, in the both the OT and the NT, that “a man lying with a man” is wrong. How is this even a debate in any church or denomination today? Pastors should not teach that gay/lesbian marriage is acceptable. You’re misleading people and teaching your own distorted, culture-guided, culturally popular viewpoints, not from the Bible.). Abortion is wrong. Also fornication and adultery are wrong.

      Having said all of this, the church has a lot of problems: an unwillingness (with many churches) to accept other races inside its doors, an inward focus, no desire to get out into the communities (from many churches, not all), petty divisions and strifes, arguing endlessly on topics that aren’t important.

      I say, “Continue to take a stand on the Bible, but know this: The unchurched are not going to come inside your doors until they see a caring for them. Churches have to reach out into the community and those who refuse to and don’t will close their doors in the next 2-3 decades.”

      Reply
      • Mark Smith says

        June 14, 2018 at 8:43 am

        The thing is, much of the world sees “loving” as “accepting their lifestyle.” The church I attend and the ones I know have no problem reaching their community, “allowing other races in,” and treating women fairly and respectfully, so it is difficult for me to believe this is a major problem.

        Reply
      • theartist says

        June 14, 2018 at 10:44 am

        Pastor,
        you are on point.

        I belong to one.

        Inwardly focused
        Not welcoming to other races
        Loss of vision
        Church calendar (sacred cow ministry) focused

        I aplaud Mark Smith-who stated the House he attends have no such issues (which is indeed a raritiy to say the least).

        I had hoped the SBC just spend this time on it’s knees and go down on in confession and repentance…pleading with the Lord to change-and let it begin with us.”

        Several years ago Pastor Francis Chang spoke at the SBC Convention-I can only quote him verbatim – “I saw an emptiness in the eyes…we just can’t come to church, preach and wrap it all up on time and that’s it…”

        Is there still “an emptiness in the eyes?”
        Can we look at our crammed church calendars and say “no more?”
        Can we all soon say “The Church has left the building-and has gone into the street?”
        I live in the inner City of Chicago. Driving through one community on a Saturday afternoon-I saw a line of 15-20 waiting for their “deliveries.”
        I also counted 9 “Closed until Wednesday and Sunday” Churches in the same vicinity.

        “The harvest is ripe, but the laborers are few.” I will continue as Scripture commands “to pray for more laborers of the Gospel-not just in word, but in deed.

        Either we let our lights shine, or they become dimmed by complacency.

        Reply
        • Craig Giddens says

          June 14, 2018 at 11:30 am

          The type of church Mark attends is much more common than you think. People tend to pick out a few bad apples and then paint the whole denomination in that light.

          Reply
      • Linda says

        June 19, 2018 at 3:26 pm

        I agree wholeheartedly

        Reply
  8. Janet Kelly says

    June 14, 2018 at 8:58 am

    30 years ago, I left another mainline denomination because all it focused on was “social justice and peacemaking” and had left the Gospel behind. It is a dying denomination with only elders left in it.

    If you keep talking about Jesus, social issues become secondary because now you know Jesus more and you realize none of that was as important to him. Knowing Him was the most important thing and the rest was taken care of when you focused on Him. We are not going to fix the world. We were never meant to.

    If we choose to go the path of social justice, we will die too. Because Jesus is truly all we have to offer to make it in this world.

    Reply
    • Roy Youngblood says

      June 14, 2018 at 5:10 pm

      Good point Janet. Loving God, Loving Others, and Making Disciples of Jesus Christ. I’m afraid that those three things, which should take up most of our time, have been replaced by other programs and things that are called ministry but in effect are really things we enjoy doing. A renewal of falling in love with Jesus (God) will help us love others HIS way and make disciples.

      Reply
    • Captain Cassidy says

      September 17, 2018 at 7:38 pm

      Your statement is so powerful because it illustrates exactly why the SBC is falling apart.

      They literally can’t walk back their false gospel of bigotry, intolerance, cruelty, misogyny, racism, xenophobia, and classism. It’s impossible now–thanks to their own efforts for the past 40 years.

      Churches that tried to do that years ago lost people to denominations like the SBC that held true to those -isms and pandered all the harder for all the people they gained by doing so.

      Now those exact -isms are dooming the SBC. Oh, sure, the SBC insults them, calling them “cultural Christians” and blowing smoke up the skirts of those remaining by calling them TRUE CHRISTIANS™, making out like they’re the “convictional” ones who stand fast and refuse to “compromise.” But every year, they lose more and more people, and must devote more and more resources to even make a stab at stagnation.

      If they soften those -isms, they will lose all the howling bigots who mistakenly, falsely believe that -isms are what any genuinely decent god would ask of humans. They’ll huff their way over to new churches and spend the rest of their days howling about why they left the SBC (but they’ll secretly fear that their new churches might also one day “compromise” like the SBC did).

      At the same time they lost all those bigots, however, the SBC would have no assurances that anybody they’ve already driven off would return. They’ve spent too much effort insulting those people and creating an atmosphere so toxic that their victims would all be reluctant to trust them ever again. Most of them would already have discovered that Christianity itself isn’t true; others would already have found way better–and safer–churches.

      So literally, all the SBC has is staying the course and doing everything it can to hold the one customer base they still have a good hold on. If they do the right thing, they’ll disintegrate almost immediately. If they keep doing the regressive thing, they’ve probably got another few decades. I wonder if their members will clue in anytime soon to what’s going on. Probably not.

      Reply
  9. Josh says

    June 14, 2018 at 8:59 am

    Good points Tom.

    When it comes to baptism numbers, I believe if we were to look all the non-denominational/non-SBC churches that have been started out of our SBC churches in the last 20 or so years because of the resistance to change the methods of ministry, and if we were to count those baptisms, I believe we would find most of what we are “missing” in our count.

    Our churches have been sick for a long time, and perhaps on of the biggest tragedy over the past few decades has been a great many awesome disciple makers have left our churches for the freedom of the non-denominational church or others like it (i.e. the bible church, etc.) further inhibiting the evangelistic/disciple-making potential of the local SBC church. Just an opinion or a hunch I have had for a while now.

    Reply
  10. Mark says

    June 14, 2018 at 9:00 am

    You can have all the committees, missions boards, task forces, etc. that you want. Until you support gender equality, quit acting like a PAC, and realize that Christianity is supposed to be about relationships and community you will struggle. Younger people often find more community among non-Christians than they do

    Reply
    • Mark says

      June 14, 2018 at 9:02 am

      among Christians. This is sad but is what I saw too.

      Reply
      • Mark Smith says

        June 14, 2018 at 2:22 pm

        Mark, please define “gender quality.” The SBC supports complementarianism, which means that the two genders have separate roles to play, but are equal before God. Still, women are not allowed in positions of church leadership. Now, the SBC itself is not a church, so there is room for female leadership imho.

        As for the SBC being a PAC, I am CONFIDENT that if there was such a thing as a Democrat who was pro-life and pro-family and pro-traditional marriage they would be welcomed. The problem is that is a non sequiter in the current Democrat party ideology.

        Reply
        • Mark says

          June 14, 2018 at 7:51 pm

          Gender equality hold that the genders are equal in every respect.

          Reply
          • Craig Giddens says

            June 15, 2018 at 8:25 am

            “Gender equality hold that the genders are equal in every respect.” Okay, you’re looking at the issue from the world’s perspective. The Bible teaches we are all equal in Christ, but that does not diminish the truth that the Bible teaches that women are not to teach or usurp authority over the man.

  11. John says

    June 14, 2018 at 9:17 am

    Hey Thom, When are you jumping in the fray?

    Reply
    • Thom Rainer says

      June 14, 2018 at 9:30 am

      My podcast comments are my fray.

      Reply
  12. Tom Harper says

    June 14, 2018 at 10:09 am

    The fact that J.D. Greear was elected President of the SBC yesterday is a good sign that there is hope for the SBC.

    Reply
    • Jim K. says

      June 14, 2018 at 10:43 am

      Amen!

      Reply
  13. JWJenkins says

    June 14, 2018 at 10:34 am

    A pruned bush always looks terrible. God may be pruning the SBC for a much greater task ahead. Confess sin. Read the Bible. Share the Gospel. Keep the Faith.

    Reply
  14. theartist says

    June 14, 2018 at 11:05 am

    MY QUESTION: Why are the tenures of the SBC Presidents so short? Seems they have too little time to “dig into the trenches” and then it’s time to elect another President. It would be wise to extend the tenures-giving the President a more sufficent time to work thru the many challenges that a position such as this requires.

    Reply
  15. Jason Scheler says

    June 14, 2018 at 11:52 am

    Thom this is a real burden and frustration for you as well for me. However, Jesus said I will build my church. I believe we are going through a season of refinement. His bride has left Him in so many ways it’s sad. So God is not going to bring new people to His adulterous wife. We need to pray for our hearts to return to the Lord. Then the outreach will happen.

    Reply
  16. Bob Small says

    June 14, 2018 at 2:24 pm

    Preach and teach the doctrine of Christ from His Word, why teach church doctrine, denominational doctrine, opinionated doctrine, political doctrine or any other doctrine. Nothing else has ever worked, and His Word clearly tells us it never will.
    There is a reason why nondenominational Churches preaching and teaching only the doctrine of Christ are the fastest growing in the country.
    Think about it. da ra

    Reply
  17. Cotton Mathis says

    June 16, 2018 at 5:59 am

    Finally, some have “seen the light.”

    What is worse than the troubles within the denomination is what is happening on the local scene.

    The idea of an “Association” where churches give honest, good money to an office where a “Director of Missions” is little more than a glorified coffee drinker who hunts, fishes, works on cars. . . and hangs out at the association office when it is convenient or absolutely necessary and is paid, in some cases, 6-figure salaries. The association office is a “feather bed for fallen preachers.” Very few have I seen who were legitimate pastors of churches that were successful. One I currently know was in a church for 2 1/2 years before he became a “missionary.” His church went from an attendance of 150 to less than 100 in that period of time. That legitimately qualified him to be a “DOM”.

    One phone call to a church from a DOM can either make or break a pastor who is trying to move to another church. We all know that; we put our heads in the sand and pretend we do not have an “Associational Superintendent” who can make/break a pastor any time he wishes. It can be infinitely worse within the state and national denominations.

    And, of the denomination, the “bland are leading the bland.” Not many of the denominational leaders I have known were successful pastors of churches of any size. So many seem to have no clue what it is like on the cutting edge of churches.

    There must be changes made. The “Grand Old Denomination” is hardly more than a political platform where “Jesus-Power” is just another way to control who goes where, as one “leader” was once quoted as having said in a meeting of other “leaders”, “If he doesn’t go along with us, we will burn him. He will find himself in a little church somewhere.”

    So sad. And the younger people of America are asked to “buy” that! I teach in a university. Most students who have grown up in religious homes whom I know tell me they are not anti-religious, they are “anti-ignorance.” They want and need to belong to an “essential” church, not a “denominational” one.

    Reply
  18. Daughter says

    June 16, 2018 at 9:56 pm

    “In the meantime, when so many thousands of the people had gathered together that they were trampling one another, He (Jesus) began to say to His disciples first, “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops.” (Luke 12:1-3, ESV)

    But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer (uh, oh), asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Matthew 22:34-40, KJV)

    Fromlaw2grace.com

    I believe this says is all.

    Reply
  19. Daughter says

    June 16, 2018 at 10:09 pm

    The denomination has become corrupt. I just researched how many Presidents and other leaders of sbc have colluded with pedophile and sex offender leaders in their own churches and seminaries to cover up and lie about the sexaul abuse in their churches and did NOTHING FOR DECADES! They did this to maintain their own power, money, influence, and status!

    THE SBC SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY DISBANDED AND DISSOLVED. Local churches should associate and work together independently to evangelize their community and disciple their own congregations.

    Reply
  20. Pastor Earl Wallace says

    June 18, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    The world view of most Christians, as taught by their leaders — pastors, seminary prof’s etc…, has been shaped by the concept of “separation of church and state,” a phrase not found in Scripture, nor in The Bible, yet which leaders both within and outside the church quote as if it is “Gospel.” God says he will judge the nations, not separate Himself from them and not hold them unaccountable. If God wanted “separation of church and state, He never would have drowned Pharaoh’s army in the sea when he led his state to disobey God’s Will.

    America was founded upon the application of The Bible to civics. Since 1954, however, when the IRS began promoting its 501C3 “policy” (not a law passed by Congress, nor a LBJ – “Johnson Amendment to the US Constitution) we have shaped our preaching and Bible teaching to conform to the falsehood that God “separates Himself from the state.” Since 1954, evil people in government call sin a human right, and the church goes silent on that issue, instead of applying The Bible to it.

    For we, who are called by God’s name to participate in 2 Chron. 7:14, and see God heal our land, we must repent of conforming our preaching and teaching to 501C3, and call sin, sin, regardless of who else is promoting it.

    View The Biblical Basis of The Bill of Rights by using this link:
    http://libertycf.org/1591-2/
    to see how God can renew America by motivating we, “who are called by His name” to live whole heartedly for Christ, which includes applying Biblical principles to every aspect of life, including, in our civic and political decisions.

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Interested in becoming a sponsor at ThomRainer.com? Click Here.


Listen to the Latest Episode of Rainer on Leadership

Categories

Archives

@ThomRainer

My Tweets

Copyright © 2021 · Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in