Podcast Episode #420
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I have been asked this question several hundred times in the course of my ministry. Today, we cover the answers for it—because it’s not an easy answer.
Some highlights from today’s episode include:
- No matter what metric you look at in churches, many of them are just not healthy.
- I don’t like organ music because it reminds me of funerals.
- One of the greatest points of resistance to change is in church music.
- When you’re in ministry, you shouldn’t make any major ministry decision without praying with your spouse.
- Just because you go from a church to a secular job doesn’t mean you’re out of ministry—you just have a new mission field.
The six considerations we cover are:
- The reason for the increased frequency of the question
- Have you and your spouse really prayed about the question?
- Is the pressing issue something you can adjust?
- Where will you go?
- What is the degree of pressure?
- Understanding the push and the pull
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Feedback
If you have a question you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at ThomRainer.com. If we use your question, you’ll receive a free copy of Becoming a Welcoming Church.
Church hopping can become a habit. With that being said, if your church is healthy, preaching the word, and the pastor has no moral issues, you should stay put. There are no perfect churches out there!
No There is NO Perfect Church ANYWHERE
So true.
A member of my church for over 40 years now, I have seen a lot of church hoppers and a lot of pastors come and go for various reasons. We even went through a major split related to a pastor sin issue. The music has changed over that time. The building has even changed and now it is in the process of changing again.
What hasn’t changed is the message. If your focus is on God’s Word you can look beyond all of the other obstacles out there.
Tracy, just want to thank you for your faithfulness and willingness to change in order to be able to help present the never changing truth of God. Blessings to you. May your tribe increase!
My husband was the pastor of our church, he passed away 6 months ago. I’m 40, with 4 children at home, and feel that the church is pushing us out. Do I leave? Is it better for the church to not has us as a reminder of grief? They are not supporting us financially, but it’s still our churh home. I’m still called to serve, and I totally understand the capacity is different. I just need wisdom in what is best for the church and my children.
God sometimes does his best work through our trials and grief! If you leave now, you, your family and the church will more likely than not, miss out on significant blessings.
If they are pushing you out, well… post the church name and contact number, and I would imagine that there would be several pastor from this blog that would be more than willing to call them and exhort them!
On the other hand, it is your responsibility to make sure you are being clear about your needs and how they can help you. Most of the time people simply don’t know what to do, and therefore nothing gets done. Make sure you are not misinterpreting the situation. Relationships work both ways.
So sorry for you loss and praying that God strengthens you and leads you with clarity.
Lisa,
I am terribly sorry for your loss. May God give you and your family His peace during these difficult days.
I do not have an answer to your question, but I am praying for God to guide you and your family. May you sense the love and care of God through His people today as you discern what is best for you and your kids.
Blessings!
Hi Rachel-I am asking God to give you wisdom that will be most spiritually beneficial to you and your family. To Pastors-there is MMBB (ministers and Missionaries Benefit Board). Churches and Church staff contribute a monthly amount that supports them, Ministry/Staff/Missionaries retirement, disability, Life Insurance, etc. payable to the spouse and children in the event of their retirement, passing and/or disability.
The Church staff USUALLY make their own monthly contributions-the Pastor’s and missionaries monthly contribution is covered by the church. The accounts receive capital gains increases overall.
Rachel I know this is too late for you-but I sincerely hope that Pastors see the benefit of such a godly plan “For Life.”
Dr. Martin Luther KIng was a member of MMBB. Upon his passing, Corretta Scott King and children, received a monthly Benefit check -until the passing of Corretta many years later. Pastors and congregations must be considerate of the financial of their leader-providing not only for him, but his family.
Whatever reason that one leaves a position at a church, remember, situations change but the missions never does. Stay active in a church and its ministry. In this way you stay close the HIM.
When I began my ministry I had a wise older pastor who was the Pastor-Emeritus of the church. He took me under his wing and told me to not ever look at a church as a stepping stone to a larger or more prosperous situation, but look at each church as the one where you would spend your life and calling and view it as if you were going to retire there. Very good advice.
No, I didn’t stay at that church until retirement, but I valued his counsel and viewed each church that way. Later on when I went into bivocational work people made the comment that I had left the ministry. Not at all! I found that I was able to minister to so many more people than were in my congregation. It opened doors to pray, counsel, and witness to that I would have never had if I had stayed in full time ministry.
Thank you for your faithfulness, John.
I once had a pastor tell me you are never free to leave a church, until you are free to stay. Very wise council when you think about it and I have followed it for over 30 years.
Thanks, Paul.
I pastored a church for 25 years, which is a phenomenon in our organization, as pastors are shifted every 2-4 years.
It was a difficult move which I had asked for at the 22nd year there, but the congregation asked that I stay. After three more years there I knew that I should have made a move at first felt timing. I was able to pick the pastor who followed me, and it proved to be a great move, as the church is doing better than ever. I was asked to transition into a leadership role, and it has been an excellent move for us, as we have both excelled in our call for God. So, with that said, after much prayer, when it is a heartfelt move would be better for your church, your family and your ministry, take it, before you get “Burnout.”
Thanks so much for your service, Jesse
A complex question. There are no “problem free churches.” Every church has issues and at least a few difficult people who pastors have to deal with. But often I hear this subject and I’ll say this: Some churches are more healthy than others. Let’s be real here. Does one honestly think it’s harder to be somewhere in which the last 3 pastoral tenures have been 10, 8 and 12 years compared with a place in which the last 3 have been 2, 1, and 3 years? It’s a better situation (likely) to be in a place in which they’re honestly committed to supporting the pastor and the tenures have been longer. I am in my second church and what I would say to a seminary student or new pastor is simply this: You’re going to get criticism. Sooner or later. Even if you’re in a church with wonderful people, there will be someone out there who is bent to criticism, feels it’s their job to tell others their deficiencies, or is just very unhappy. You’ll have to deal with this. It’s anywhere you go.
But there’s a difference between a little bit to some criticism and being in a situation in which there is a contentious atmosphere and you’ve been feeling that for at least 6 months or longer. When it gets to a point in which you feel people are dealing with you badly, it’s time to consider moving on. Sometimes, often this happens to pastors. The leaders are unhealthy (unregenerate) and they have risen to the top over a period (maybe 5-10 years or a little longer) and they are the power group. When it’s just one person (who’s difficult and unhealthy), you might can keep moving along for a few more years. But when it’s 4-5-6 people in your church who are self-focused, it’s time to seek another pastoral ministry.
If you don’t, the ugliness can get even worse. Too many churches in America are like this today and pastors catch the brunt of it. I don’t think one should run at the first sign of trouble or conflict, but after 2-3 years, you can often gauge the pressure level.
When you first get there, probably 10% are going to like you. They’ll bless you. You didn’t do anything to earn that. They’re just wonderful people. Then, another 10% or maybe a little less are going to dislike you. They’ll constantly complain, criticize, be negative, never do anything to help the church. You didn’t do anything to earn their dislike; they’re just difficult with everybody.
The other 80% are “wait and see.” Over time, they can become part of either the first 2 camps. if the % goes up to 20% or more, who dislike you, it’s probably time to start looking.
I would say, too, one question to consider if you’re thinking about leaving ministry all together: Is being a pastor part of my identity? For me, it is. I’m not at all perfect. I struggle with sin. But being a pastor is part of who I am.
The other thing and I rarely hear this said by many out in the pastoral world today is: If you’re going to be in ministry for the long-term (20-30 years or longer), are you willing to embrace spiritual and emotional suffering (betrayal, slamming, standing alone when being lambasted (with supporters being silent), disrespect, being misrepresented, etc.)? If not, you won’t make it a long time.
The main thing is that you are a called servant of God and not of a local church. If God wants you there then you will stay. If He doesn’t he will move you. The difficulty is that there is no biblical example of long term pastors. One other thing that should be considered is if you are an evangelist or a pastor? Evangelist do not make good pastors because they are always seeking ways to expand the kingdom. On the other hand, Pastors spend most of their time attending the flock. Both are needed; however, the evangelist is usually not long term. The Evangelist will be focused on the Great Commission more than the Great Commandments, while the Pastor will focus more on the Great Commandments than the Great Commission. Recent survey, 51% of church going Christians do not know the meaning of the phrase Great Commission.
I am currently contemplating whether to move on from my current church. It’s a difficult decision to make and I pray for all who have to make that decision that aren’t blessed to be bi-vocational like I am where the financial impact can be great. I remember at my ordination service, the Director of Missions reminded me of the loneliness of the pastorate. He encouraged me by saying, “Remember, sometimes the church can be very mean and ruthless to you as a Pastor and the only thing you will have to lean on is your calling. Remember that during the good times and especially during the dark days. God has called you and rest on the promise, cling to it.”
Preach on my brothers….until the whole world hears.
What is your thoughts on Organized religion or Institutionalized Church?
I was in ministry/leadership for over 10 years and walked away almost two years ago, when God woke me up to institutionalized churches. I left a building but did not leave my relationship with my heavenly Abba.
I am in search for possible a smaller group maybe home groups because I yet have found a church that is regularly focused on Gods unconditional Love.
I would value your opinion Mr. Rainer