Podcast Episode #263
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This recent post at ThomRainer.com sparked an intense debate on the subject of pastors and visitation. So today, we highlight that post and the points made in the post and the comments.
Some highlights from today’s episode include:
- Pastors are to equip members for the work of the ministry.
- If a pastor is doing all the ministry in a church, the members are having their God-given mandate taken away.
- Many of our congregations today have a “serve me” mentality.
- If the pastor is only caring for the people in the church, the people will only care for the people in the church.
- The lives of your members inform your sermons, but the Text guides what you preach.
- So many times pastors are worried about pacifying the saints that they fail to reach out to sinners.
- If you take away from a pastor’s outward focus, you’re likely taking away from the church’s evangelistic push.
- Pastoral turnover is too high in a lot of denominations.
- Biblical church members want to be a part of a church that’s making a difference.
The 15 reasons why pastors should not be the only ones visiting members are:
- It’s unbiblical.
- It deprives members of their roles and opportunities.
- It fosters a country club mentality.
- It turns a church inwardly.
- It takes away from sermon preparation.
- It takes away from the pastor’s outward focus.
- It takes away vital leadership from the pastor.
- It fosters unhealthy comparisons among the members.
- It is never enough.
- It leads to pastoral burnout.
- It leads to high pastoral turnover.
- It puts a lid on Great Commission growth of the church.
- It leads pastors to get their affirmation from the wrong source.
- It causes biblical church members to leave.
- It is a sign that the church is dying.
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Feedback
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Our local congregation (about 600 on most Sunday morning) has a designated “Chaplain of the Week”….this chaplain is the first person called when an emergency arises…This chaplain also does a lot of the hospital visits, and other visits to people who may be infirmed. This system takes a huge load off the pastor.
EVERY MEMBER should be involved in the lives of other members in the local congregation. Why isn’t this preached from every pulpit in every Bible-believing congregation? Where did we ever get the idea that the pastor is the only person who can “visit”?
Sometimes there are more questions than answers..
It’s the old system of “take care of me” mentality. That the church is here for the members. They focus on the Shepherd part of a Pastor and not the equipper as in Eph. 4:11-12
Rod,
The church is here for the members…but the “inward focus” is not the sole responsibility of the Pastoral staff.
You’re doing a great job, Dr. Rainer!
You’re doing a great job, Jonathan!
You’re doing a great job, Amy J!
You’re doing a great job, Amy T!
I greatly appreciate all of you and the help you’ve been in my life! Thank you!
Agree…we use to have a Prospect list…this was sent to teachers or anyone who wanted to visit…I don’t know if prospect lists are made anymore…teachers call on missing class members…we use to have a plan if they were missing…call see if ok…then if they missed the next week send card or letter…third week..go visit. This was the time we were growing…had to enlarge classrooms …go the two services and then build new buildings…you have guessed by now this is from an ole lady remembering the way it use to be…Pastor did make hospital visits.
Pat Hicks
If someone who calls himself or herself a “pastor” and is incapable of visiting their so-called “flock,” then they need to step down.
The church I grew up in, situated in West Philadelphia, as a child and remained in until I was 18 years old (and still hold as the standard for other churches), was pastored by an incredible man – Reverend Arthur Haaf – who was my inspiration for wanting to become a pastor at the age of 7, and began when our church would conduct a “Junior Church” in the nursery section of the church, while the normal service was underway upstairs … where young children took turns reading Scripture and experience standing at a small pulpit in front of the other children, performing little mini-sermons.
Aside for my love of Christ, as a child, what really inspired me about becoming a pastor, was the love that Rev. Haaf showed to his congregation, before and after the service, the way he visited the sick on a regular basis and would many times just show up on the doorsteps of the congregants, should he happen to be driving by where they lived. Witnessing this as a child, deeply affected me as a young Believer – seeing his love, sacrifice, and servanthood for the congregation – and made me want to become a pastor. To paraphrase Charles Dickens’ “A Christmas Carol”: Reverend Haaf was as good a friend, as good a master, and as good a man, as the good old church knew, or any other good old city, town, or borough, in the good old world.
I see too many pastors, who can recite the Old Testament & Paul’s letters, Word for Word, but continuously misquote Jesus Christ & the 4 Gospels and instead, sit in Moses’ seat and have become Disciples of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Jesus Christ spent most of His ministry in visitations – caring for and healing the sick, casting out demons, raising the dead. His first Miracle was when He was attending a wedding! It was the very witness of these visitations, that helped to draw people to Him. It was through His visitations, that Jesus used as the answer to John the Baptist when he asked Jesus, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” And Jesus reply was, “Tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them.” These were through Visitations – Not Jesus standing and giving sermons all day. The Pharisees were well adept at preaching, saying long prayers, and were experts of The Law.
Jesus said, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” He also said “As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.” – these are done through visitations.
Jesus didn’t say people would know the disciples by their great sermons! He also said “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.” Too many pastors think that it’s a privilege for the congregation to be serving them and that they should be grateful that they are having the opportunity to serve their pastor or pastors. Pastors need to Stop Leading and Start Serving!
Jesus said “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.” This can only be done in the framework of a Visitation.
Where are the Servant Pastors?! They are a thing of the past & have become extinct! In all the churches that I have been a member of in my entire lifetime … Rev. Arthur Haaf was the only true Servant Pastor that I have witnessed.
When you say servant, do you mean servant of the entire church, or of individual members. Pastors who “serve” individuals needs while neglecting to “serve” the best interests of the church, tend to be nothing more than people pleasers.
Where did anyone say pastors should not visit? Read the title of the blog again: “Why Pastors Shouldn’t be the ONLY ONES Visiting Members” (emphasis added).
So, do you have a golden of image of the Reverend Arthur Haaf on your bookself? After all, he is the only true pastor to have ever lived. In fact, he might even be better than Jesus Himself!
Just curious, did the Reverend Arthur Haaf (the only true pastor) heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, or drive out demons when he visited? That seems to be what you think the job description of a pastor should be.
By the way, your soap box analysis of Jesus’ ministry is completely inaccurate and obviously influenced by your disturbing devotion to the Reverend Arthur Haaf (the only true pastor).
Jesus did not visit hardly anyone, they all came to Him. In fact, there were times when Jesus had to make a concerted effort to get away from the crowds. I also find it very troubling that you diminish the importance of preaching the Word of God. Does the Bible say that faith comes through visitation? No, it comes through hearing the Word of Christ. The focus of Jesus’ ministry was not visitation, it was preaching! After all, He is the Word of God in the flesh. Jesus performed miracles so that people would listen to Him preach God’s Word. Furthermore, the apostles of Jesus made it clear that their first priority was the ministry of the Word. But I guess they should have known the Reverend Arthur Haaf (the only true pastor).
Mark, I too went to the same church as you and yes Mr. Haaf was a great pastor. I was not in the congregation at the time he was pastor but my parents were, Bill and Esther Irwin. He was so friendly and gracious. Asked about us, my husband and me, everytime he saw my parents. I knew your parents for many years. When my son told me to look up this article I wondered why.
So you are a pastor? Are you in the Delaware County area? What church do you pastor?
The point was that pastors cannot be the only ones doing visitation. There are a long list of things that go into the pastor’s job description and it is very important to realize this and prioritize them. What is more important sermon preparation time or in-home visitation? What is more important leading Bible studies or community involvement? What is more important administration or hospital visitation? Visitation is important- particularly for the hospitalized- but at rock bottom is something that the laity can do just as well as the pastor. Only the pastor plans worship services, preaches, administers sacraments, supervises staff, is responsible for much of the administration. The pastor is not the only one who teaches in most churches, but most churches expect a pastor to have some teaching role. It is easy to say that a pastor should be out visiting everyday, but this can only happen at the expense of a long list of other roles that demand a pastor’s attention.
One reason why this isn’t preached from every pulpit in Christendom, is that when mature Christians step up and take up their proper lay ministries, the control and pre-eminence of the pastor is diminished. I believe that ninety-nine out of a hundred pastors would be perfectly happy to see their role diminished: they are overworked and held to impossible standards. But that remaining one controlling, insecure, authoritarian pastor actively discourages the exercise of any lay ministry that he cannot control, and somehow his influence reaches beyond his own congregation.
Thom, you have written previously about toxic pastors, how to recognize them, and how to address them. Would you consider some time, writing about how a church recovers from a toxic pastor, especially during the period following the pastor’s departure and before a new pastor has been found. For our church this period is likely to be quite long, as the pastor left only when our diminishing congregation could no longer afford his salary. We are blessed with strong lay-members who were empowered and trained by the previous pastor and who survived twenty years of discouragement, but how do we coordinate our different ministries as we now step forward to pick up the pieces?
Pastors often hear that we must visit the church members more. But just out of curiosity, how often to church members visit the pastor? The stats showing how often we suffer from burn out, depression, anxiety, etc. are pretty well known at this point. I know I’ve been told several times to visit more and not once have those people stopped by my house — even when invited to cookouts or kids’ birthday parties. Believe it or not, it is the same number of miles from my house to your house as it is from your house to my house. 😉
In my previous church, which was very far from being perfect, they had worked out an excellent system of visitation for home-bound members. Average church attendance was about 250 and there were about 12 members home-bound. We had three visitation teams that were all lay volunteers. Once a month each team would take four of the shut-ins and visit them. They would rotate through the groups of four so that they visited the same person after three months. As lead pastor, I was informed if there were any significant needs that required my attention. Otherwise, I tried to visit each shut-in at least once a year.
I took care of visiting guests/prospective members and hospital care. On my day off, my associate would take care of hospital visits.
The church was a very gentrified church that was used to having the pastor very active in visitation. The system that was in place when I came on the scene had been developed during the interim. I was very grateful for this balanced approach to visitation.
I would say, however, that a preaching pastor has to do some visitation or he/she will not know what is happening to the people. You have to cultivate affection for the people you lead and much of that happens during personal visitation. I don’t see how you can maintain relevant preaching if you don’t know what is happening in their lives.
I agree with all of Rainer’s points in the post. Balance is key.
Good comments, very informative and thought provoking. Thank you. Would loved to know the rev Arthur Haaf????.
Good comments, very informative and thought provoking. Thank you. Would loved to know the rev Arthur Haaf????.