Podcast Episode #175
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In a recent post, I discussed one of the more difficult aspects of church leadership—having to fire a staff member. Some readers took issue with the post, especially point #2. So today we discuss that post and further explain the why and the how of having to let a staff member go.
Some highlights from today’s episode include:
- If there is a staff member out of alignment with the rest of the leadership, it can hurt the ministry of the church.
- When hiring and firing, you need to consider competency, culture, character, and chemistry.
- Some of the dumbest mistakes made when firing someone are made when you don;t get enough input.
- When discussing performance issues with staff, always document insufficiencies.
- No staff member should ever be surprised if they are let go. You should make multiple documented efforts to correct issues before reaching that point.
- It’s always easier to get a job if you have a job.
- It’s always better to encourage someone to find another position while they are still employed than to just cut them loose.
The six principles to remember when you have to let a staff member go are:
- Pray about it fervently.
- Make certain the “bad fit” was real.
- Seek input from others.
- Go through due process.
- Show compassion.
- Try to anticipate unintended consequences.
Episode Sponsors
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School is a dynamic community of learners who are serious about ministry preparation biblical studies theological reflection and cultural engagement. Their faculty are gifted men and women who minister as much through research and writing as through local church involvement but their primary ministry is teaching and caring for students. Find out more about TEDS at Divinity.TIU.edu.
Vanderbloemen Search Group is the premier pastor search firm dedicated to helping churches and ministries build great teams. They’ve helped hundreds of churches just like yours find their church staff and are uniquely geared to help you discern who God is calling to lead your church. Find out more about Vanderbloemen Search Group by visiting WeStaffTheChurch.com.
Feedback
If you have a question you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at ThomRainer.com. If we use your question, you’ll receive a free copy of I Will.
I love your podcast and listen to them consistently. Thank you for beginning the discussion of the topic in less than 2 minutes into the podcast. Often times it is not until 5 minutes into the podcast that the actual subject is discussed. There is nothing wrong with lighthearted banter at the beginning of the talk, but often it goes on- in my personal opinion, a bit long.
God bless you for your ministry.
I would appreciate your advice. I’m a recent victim of #2, but with a twist. I didn’t fit because I bought into what you are teaching. I bought into Simple Church, small groups, church revitalization, and other concepts you have promoted. I bought into those that you have had as guests on your podcast such as Larry Osborne and his book, Sticky Teams. I bought in and tried to share it with my leaders but it was rejected and now I find myself on the outside looking for a way back into ministry – specifically ministry that is based on a philosophy with which I am in agreement with. I have an excellent resume with solid experience and a Master’s level education, but it feels like because of my background I can’t quite find someone willing to take the risk of giving me a chance. Do you have any advice or suggestions? Thank you.
Great list that applies in non church roles, as well. Are there times when changing roles or shifting responsibilities would be a way of resolving a performance issue?
Dr. Rainer,
I appreciate the work you do and have done for Lifeway. I read your website everyday. I agree with a lot of what was said on this particular issue, but have serious concerns with other things that were said. I agree that sometimes a staff member needs to be let go because of a bad fit. I do think even Christians have to do that. However, I think that the issue of pain and hurt that the minister and his family go through when that happens was very lightly dealt with on the podcast. It seems like y’all were trying to defend pastors at any cost. I’m sure you can tell by now that this recently happened to me. I won’t go into the details. It was a bad fit. I knew and the Pastor knew it and I was trying to leave. I was forced out and the Pastor will never be held accountable for what he did to my family. I am now serving in a church again, but the pain that it caused, especially to my wife will literally take years to work through. Maybe y’all could give equal time to the pain and hurt caused by this and not just try to take up for the Pastor. I am loyal to the pastor and totally support him being able to hire and fire his own staff. However, the Pastor is not always right and should not have a blank check to treat another minister that is called by God just as he is as though he is a second-class citizen in the kingdom of God. Thanks again for all you do. I am not trying to be ugly, but the tears are flowing as I write this because of the pain caused by a micro-managing Pastor who “prayed” about what God wanted him to do.
I feel your pain. Your story sounds so familiar. I am in the downside of that journey looking for a place to serve. My wife too has struggled immensely because of things that have happened. Your story is encouraging to me because you made it back into ministry and I hope and pray all in your family have experienced healing from the wounds that ministry has given them. Thanks for sharing.
Dear Dr. Rainer, thank you for your podcasts.
I’d like to ask if you could expand on the term ‘bad fit’. At times, it’s possible the term ‘bad fit’ may be used to terminate employment without proper reflection on whether or not the pastor received enough support to do the job.
Lack of support may look like
– staff personnel and resources being more skewed to one ministry over another,
– socially isolating a pastor and his family by viewing him as a ‘service provider’,
– not allowing a pastor to make decisions regarding his congregation yet holding him accountable to previously set goals,
– not providing the adequate feedback
In reflecting on ‘bad fit’, would you consider it’s also incumbent on those considering termination of a pastor to consider whether they have also contributed to the problem?
Thanks for your consideration.
I really appreciate the the way this topic has been handled. I have worked and dealt with HR issues in the business world and in the local church. Here are a few of my observations which I would like to submit for further consideration:
1. In ministry we often confuse employment in a church with a calling to serve in God’s kingdom. That is simply not so. Every Christian is called to serve our Lord and King. Regardless of pay. Therefore dismissal from employment (at least not for matters of “fit”) in a particular local church must never be equated with dismissal from God’s family.
2. The vary nature of our churches is in most cases some kind of registered “business”, albeit a not-for-profit, and/or charity. This simple fact makes the church subject to government regulation and scrutiny. Once you are required to establish budgets, pay salaries, submit tax returns and so on, the dynamics change. We are no longer simply a “family of believers”.
3. From the comments I see that in ministry we often follow the same practices as secular society. Not surprisingly the outcomes are more or less the same, but with a spiritual twist, which makes them often more painful. I would like to note that if a dismissal in the business world is handled as poorly as some of the examples described by various commentators, the pain felt by them and their families is just as real.
Thanks for allowing me to contribute to the discussion.
Thank you for this post and podcast. I literally searched for this podcast because of recent events in our ministry. We (the church leadership) terminated a person’s employment due to several reasons. After the decision was made, and subsequently followed with the actual termination, there were all sorts of feelings and thoughts that arose in me. The decision was certainly final and justified. However, on my end, it was emotionally difficult to let go a good and kind person whom I have become attached to. This podcast reminded me of the justified reasons and assured me that it was the right decision. So, thank you for ministering to me.