Podcast Episode #158
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We discuss a recent post on what churches look for—and avoid—when hiring a new pastor. Please note that when we reference age discrimination, we are referring to more of a preference for and a discounting of candidates of certain ages, not the classic legal definition of the term.
Some highlights from today’s episode include:
- Not all intentional age discrimination in a church is malicious.
- A pastor in his 40s typically has an easier time finding a church job than a pastor in his 30s or 50s.
- The age of 55 is a psychological barrier for many churches when hiring, and it’s a shame.
- There are many pastors doing the most effective ministry of their career who would be considered “too old to hire” by some churches.
- It’s much easier to find a job when you have a job.
- When churches limit their pastor search to young pastors, they could be missing out on some very experienced candidates.
- Young pastoral candidates could bring enthusiasm and originality to many churches in need of both.
The six considerations about age discrimination we discuss are:
- Age discrimination is common in many churches.
- Churches do not discriminate maliciously.
- Many churches determine candidate profiles by surveying church members.
- Those excluded from consideration are on both ends of the age spectrum: the younger and the older.
- Many members use the “+15” mental calculation to determine if a candidate is too old.
- Churches are missing some great opportunities narrowing their focus to a certain age.
Episode Sponsors
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Feedback
If you have a question you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at ThomRainer.com. If we use your question, you’ll receive a free copy of I Will.
I see a perpetual desire by many for the perfect person. This is the same as is seen in the private sector. Too often everyone is found to have a problem by being too young, too old, too conservative, too liberal, lacking experience, too experienced, of the wrong marital status, of the wrong parental status, too educated, doesn’t look great, etc. No one is perfect. However, if you want to call a semi-retired or other particular person, get an employment lawyer with knowledge of religious hiring to draft the job ad to do it right and legal.
This has not even begun to tackle gender discrimination.
Is it any wonder that churches are practicing age discrimination? According to your last blog, visitors feel turned off by older congregations, so why wouldn’t they feel turned off by an older pastor or staff member? I’m not saying such attitudes are right; on the contrary, I think they’re an indictment of American Christianity in the 21st century.
There seems to be a refusal by both young and old to understand the other. There is a major fear that older clergy will try to return everything to the 1950s. It is no different than people in their 70s having a hard time understanding that jobs are almost impossible to get these days especially when right out of school with little to no experience when they had three job offers while still in college.
I think both sides want to say to the other “please try to understand the problems that I face in today’s world.”
Thanks for the post about hiring practices and it may be that in many cases it is not intended to be discriminatory, but rather a choice based upon the greatest good. However, Ageism is a very real issue for ministers who have spent their life in ministry and hear those words from a director of missions “you no longer fit the profile”. It seems that there is a fundamental and systemic attitude that after you are 50+ that you should either be settled until retirement or you scarcely qualify anywhere. It is a difficult issue for all people who fall outside the standard deviation from the mean and a difficult issue for churches to reconcile. Sometimes there are no easy answers, there is only a sovereign God who knows and understands.
Thom,
I have personally seen this – inside and out. Churches really need instruction as to the legalities and practicalities of these self-imposed limitations. Older age really doesn’t need to be an issue, especially if one understands the values of millennials. A successful pastor understands the need to relate to all ages, and has honed an ability to do so. Rather than focus on age, the focus needs to be on two areas: First, quality of existing relationships – which can only be determined through good work with references. Second, personal energy, which again can only be determined through good reference work. In my opinion, an age limitation is a lazy approach culling through candidates, and churches are far worse off by using it than by simply doing their search work well.
“A successful pastor understands the need to relate to all ages, and has honed an ability to do so.”
Also mandatory is (the majority of) a congregation not prohibiting the pastor/minister from relating to all ages. I grew up attending churches where the elderly did not want anyone but them to be related to. Everything was for and about them.
Well spoken!
I’m sixty years old and entering the ministry. I know that finding employment might be tough, but I’m proceeding anyway, trusting in the Lord to help me find the right church and for the right church to find me. I practiced law for many years, served in law enforcement and also worked as a journalist, so I bring to the table knowledge, experience and skills developed over a lifetime, but I also know that can be pretty intimidating. If a church passes over me because of my age, I am saddened, not for myself, but for the church. That said, if that is their attitude, then perhaps I’m better off not serving there.
Thom,
As a minister in my late 30’s I have seen that many see the younger as not “mature” enough to handle the pastorate. What they are really saying is that someone who is younger will bring too much change. In my early 30’s I was already 10+ years in ministry and felt that Sr Pastor was the next venture. I sent out over 100 resumes to churches and all of them said “no”. Many of them hired guys in their 40’s. Needless to say it was discouraging. Churches need to sense the work of the Holy Spirit in their search for the next pastor. There needs to be more prayer, more time in God’s Word and less time at stats, seeing what other churches are doing, business practices, etc. (though they are necessary); the emphasis is on finding “God’s Man” not the people’s preference.
Thanks!
This is an interesting thing to think about when heading into an interview but my question is are there things that can be done by the candidate to overcome this even though as you said, I don’t think anyone does this for the wrong reasons?
I think it depends on what the hiring committee wants or perceives. They may not want you to care too much about the young because they think you won’t care about the older members. Then again, they probably will want you to care about families with young children because they are very much desired in churches. Unmarried, highly-educated young professionals generally aren’t desired so you might want to keep quiet about them lest it harm your chances of being hired. My suggestion is to study the committee members’ backgrounds in detail.
Thanks for this. Good to have a conversation about this issue that is very real to me. I’m 60 and in transition.
One of the changing realities is that Boomers are retiring later than 65. 70 seems to be the new normal for many and I know many that are planning/hoping to work beyond that age. God willing, that is my plan as well. One of the blog respondents mentioned that the issue with older candidates is whether or not they understand and can relate to millenials and their personal energy level. I believe this is true and those are strengths that I intend to leverage in any interviews that I have.
The issues discussed in this podcast are helpful to me for my search and any interviews I might have (and cover letters, too!). I’m hoping that some search teams were listening, too. I appreciated the conversation about the “surveys.” The results of such a democratic process do not always result in discerning wisdom.
Bob. Curiously, how do you (plan to) relate to the young? How do you plan to spend the free time you have, if hired? How would you divide your time between young and older people? If asked to teach two Sunday school classes that meet at the same time, which one would you choose, the one with elderly or one with the young? Do you understand that the younger people think differently? Can you conduct the funeral of an elderly person and reach out to the grandchild(ren) too? Do you realize that to many young people today their grandparents were their only defenders and often were the only people who loved them or do you still believe that all parents are great to their children?
All these questions have right and wrong answers since the older people generally are large donors and are in or control the church leadership.
I am 35 years old and have been told that I am too young and do not have any experience. I have an MDiv and am working on my D.Min. at the moment. I have been a youth pastor, associate pastor, interim pastor, my wife and I are presently serving in Asia as missionaries and was the President of a ministry for more than two years. I have also done lay ministry in several different arenas. So I understand this. Young ministers like me just want to be given a chance. Any advice Dr. Rainer?