Church bullies are common in many churches. They wreak havoc and create dissension. They typically must have an “enemy” in the church, because they aren’t happy unless they are fighting a battle. They tend to maneuver to get an official leadership position in the church, such as chairman of the elders or deacons or treasurer. But they may have bully power without any official position.
Church bullies have always been around. But they seem to be doing their work more furiously today than in recent history. Perhaps this look at nine traits of church bullies can help us recognize them before they do too much damage.
- They do not recognize themselves as bullies. To the contrary, they see themselves as necessary heroes sent to save the church from her own self.
- They have personal and self-serving agendas. They have determined what “their” church should look like. Any person or ministry or program that is contrary to their perceived ideal church must be eliminated.
- They seek to form power alliances with weak members in the church. They will pester and convince groups, committees, and persons to be their allies in their cause. Weaker church staff members and church members will succumb to their forceful personalities.
- They tend to have intense and emotional personalities. These bullies use the intensity of their personalities to get their way.
- They are famous for saying “people are saying.” They love to gather tidbits of information and shape it to their own agendas. See my previous post on this one item.
- They find their greatest opportunities in low expectation churches. Many of the church members have an entitlement view of church membership. They seek to get their own needs and preferences fulfilled. They, therefore, won’t trouble themselves to confront and deal with church bullies. That leads to the next issue, which is a consequence of this point
- They are allowed to bully because church members will not stand up to them. I have spoken with pastors and church staff who have been attacked by church bullies. While the bully brings them great pain, they have even greater hurt because most of the church members stood silent and let it happen.
- They create chaos and wreak havoc. A church bully always has his next mission. While he or she may take a brief break from one bullying mission to the next, they are not content unless they are exerting the full force of their manipulative behavior.
- They often move to other churches after they have done their damage. Whether they are forced out or simply get bored, they will move to other churches with the same bullying mission. Some bullies have wreaked havoc in three or more churches.
Church bullying is epidemic in many of our congregations. They must be stopped. In my article on Wednesday, I deal with the topic of preventing church bullying. In the meantime, let me hear from you.
#7 is crucial. This may come about because people may see church as safe, non-controversial, “go along to get along” places. Me, I simply won’t countenance bullying.
I think when the members of the ekklesia are so secure and sure of their relationship with the Lord, that they don’t really let the opinions of others upset that, then bullies may not stand much of a chance.
Kudos for raising topics such as this.
Thank you, Bob. I am always encouraged by your courage and conviction.
This article almost made me fall backward out of my chair when I first read it.For the last 2 years I have been in a situation in my music department at my church. I serve in my choir and we have an individual who is not the director of the choir but consistently passes down directives and policies that affect us greatly. This person is not our minister of music but is over anything that has to do with vocals. The minister of music is over the band and that seems to be it. The bully seems to run everything else. It’s a strange set up but it was like that when I got there. The relationship between the minister of music and the bully seems to be forced at best by the pastor. The pastor is ecstreamly close to both people but it’s clear to see that they just tolorate one another. I don’t think pastor is aware of what’s going on with the choir. To this point there has been great reluctance by anyone to go to the pastor out of fear he would side with the bully. The bully is exstreamly manipulative. The choir as a whole seems to be very unhappy but have just gone along for the ride. The bully even has spies in the choir to report back all that we say and do. My flesh wants to walk away but I believe God wants me to stand up against this bully. To this point I have said a few things that have got me put on the bullies radar and that’s fine by me. I refuse to operate in fear and intimidation. This article hit dead on for me. And with much prayer I’m going to stand against this kind of tyranny.
I encourage you to stand up. I would caution you to make certain that your family will support you. My wife and I both stood up to some different things in our church, and we have had some very stressful years since then. It would have been much harder if we went through it alone.
God bless you ! Thank you for this article on bullying in church ..I feel most deeply for you to be overridden and manipulated in this way ….and I feel it to the point I see weakness in my churches leader and great sadness this is overlooked great sadness indeed …
Should you walk away .?
I now have …I think if this behaviour is not challenged and encouraged to change by those in charge it will eat away at the very reason were there
How can one sit and b bullied and left to feel worthless in the very place this is expected to be welcomed ? How can we help the vulnerable and weaker of the congregation to come for the grace of God when it is tainted by these souls which YES should b encouraged to change and indeed pittied for there selfish behaviour …?
I have experienced bulling of the elderly …the poor and the disabled lady vicar ! By another vicar ! And tolerated this but now I see this is not for me ? I’d rather spread the grace of the LORD and support the congregation I know outside the church and decide that church if it encourages this for the sake of money in the tray ..has indeed lost its way ?
I feel very sad as I passed the church this morning I didn’t go in..I gave God a hello and prayed for the elderly and infirm to find peace …elsewhere let the greed of money as and the church come to there own sin sadly I passed for if Jesus returned to us today ? How disappointed he would be in there behaviour .
I have recently become an abused/excluded member of my church. I was prevented from entering the body of the church to sit in my usual place, I was escorted to the annex used by the Sunday School for the duration of the adult preparations, collected and escorted for the Blessing. then escorted out of the church.
I was physically prevented from joining in with a social activity I had always joined with.
I was collected in due time for the Blessings and immediately escorted out of the church before the service was complete. Not allowed to communicate with my friends.
it was distressing as well as demeaning. I have no idea why I was treated thus except that I am not the most socially adept member finding it quite hard to communicate with some people, due to poor hearing
I intend to go to church as usual this week if only to test the “temperature’. If I am not welcome still, there are other more ‘Christian venues’ They are the losers not me!!!!!!1
Joy I man dealing with similar things In the worship team, we have now a new leader that doesn’t sing yet is over us for what, I have no clue! She has all these bully traits!!!
You have answered your own question my friend
Over you
This seems to be a primitive aspect of a remanent of human nature , sin, survival ,to need to be dominant .or in control .
If we do have self control then a will fights to gain this over others. It is a battle that has not been relinquished Jesus has already won.
Jesus is true . The meek and gentle spirit who was not shy at demonstrating His indignation in the temple
Keep sure that He is with you whenever you may go.
May Jesus come in us all and by His power and grace raise
Us above the concepts that inhibit the
Holy Spirit to move ,to do more than we can imagine.
May we see the lion and the lamb reconciled
For me it is to express His love in me freely but at the same time recognising
that l must not create a stumbling block for others.
It has to be His way. The practice of self control rather than controlling behaviours. or compiling to sin filled, deceptive status quo of suppression, oppression and depression.
The damage caused by fear needs healing . Forgiving .
I will stand with you on the rock of our salvation my friend.
He will uphold us.
May conviction not shame be our shield. The fortress of safety
His name.
Rejoice and He will set the captives free
Mr. Rainer, I’ve been a member of my church since i was a kid. 53 years and I’ve never wittnessed before what I’ve wittnessed since our recent pastor change. The bulling from her to me and how she has caused such havoc with me and other congregation members, trying to drive me out for speaking out on this. I’ve went to the bishop on these issues and all he did was make things worse by confronting the pastor without a meeting with the both of us face to face. Common sense would tell anyone the situation would continue.
What do i do from here ?
This church is my home.
The things I’ve seen done to others who’ve come in need of help have been mocked or shunned away.
Who can i get to stop this ruining of our church and members ?
Jesus. He fights on our behalf .
I don’t mean to sound trite but He can move mountains.
Pray open your heart to Him and there you will find a home for you ,and those He cares for ,a safe refuge . A place of healing the hurt and renewing .
Your 1st initial issue is that you have a female pastor leading the flock. That goes against everything the Bible states about Womens place in the Church and the leader being a Shepard. Not a Shephardette. Book of 1Timothy 2 & 3
The primary reason why most people will not stand up to bullies is because they tend to give a lot of money which in turn gives them a sense of entitlement and ownership. Giving is often used by bullies to manipulate and get their way as is the threat of leaving altogether. A simple and effective way to stand up to bullies is to show them the door whenever they threaten to leave.
AMEN. We have a small congregation that depends on bully contributions to keep the doors open, which is so very sad. The bullies threaten and sometimes do limit their monetary support to advance their agenda.
Ms. Margret, What does the Sr. Pastor have to say about these Bullies? and dose he have any help? Please Reply. Donnie E.
Dear Margret
God bless that you. See this as I cannot encourage this behaviour the more we walk away maybe the more they will question why there churches and quoffers are empty ? And realise before too long it is not our not wanting to worship the LORD but the devil has the last laugh
Sorry but that’s not true, and I’m speaking out against this anti-rich and stereotyping comment. The bullies of my church were the poorest in the group – from the poorest families. I put up with it for almost 4 decades. I now just watch Joel Osteen from the comforts of my own home bc no one has the courage to stand up. Their families are a strong force in our church. It is simply put, those who bully – bully! There are sociopathic/narcissistic souls in all walks of life, economically, racially, etc. No need to single out wealth
Wealth seems to be a large factor in our church. It is subtle, but obvious to the ones of us that do not have that wealth. I love my church and it’s members, but really do not like seeing the pastor and others look away from the wrongdoing of the wealthy.
True. I heard a saying that the devil is not fighting the church, he is joining it… 🙂 You are exactly right. It doesn’t always have to do with how much money they give the church. I have seen it both ways. The same way with people who complain about everything, even when it is good. Some people will complain if their ice cream is cold.
Truth here!!
Or, they are sleeping with someone in leadership. Sad to say but it happens.
The pastor and his wife at the church I was attending
has recently resigned which was a huge surprise to me.
I saw them as lifelong leaders of that church. His father
was the previous pastor and had
stayed much longer and retired at an older age.
For them to leave at a relatively young age
makes me wonder why they’re leaving. I was there a
long time under their leadership but left because
honestly I couldn’t take their bullying tactics any longer.
The pastor often attacked me verbally from
the pulpit, like he was trying to get me to
leave the church. His wife wasn’t much better.
I hoped I was imagining it until
my grown son asked me one day why the pastor pointed
at me and said what he said. One of my friends also
started noticing and asked me what was going on.
I honestly didn’t know. I hoped my family hadn’t
noticed. I finally left reluctantly, as I loved the church
and the pastor and his family. I never took part in any
campaign or any thing to come against the pastor in any way.
I just wanted him to let me grow spiritually there, yet
I felt I was constantly being rejected by him. Anyway,
the only reason I know they left is because a woman that
still attends told so me at the grocery store last week.
She assumed I knew.
We didn’t discuss it much, but I get the feeling she
was hiding something. There will be a new pastor and
they’re even changing the name of the church. I haven’t
attended there in over 5 years. I love God and always will.
But now I don’t know how to ask current members
I happen to see here or there if the pastor and his
family will still be there in the congregation without
starting gossip. I hear pastors that retire, but stay in the
same church as members instead of leaders,
often can’t give up control
and end up giving unwanted advice to the new pastor.
Anyway, my point is, sometimes the bullying comes
from the pulpit, not always from the congregation.
No matter where it comes from, it’s always wrong. Shaming
people from the pulpit is wrong, and he never once talked
privately with me about it on his own, which is the biblical
way to do it. I had to take the first step and schedule two
meetings with him and twice he denied there was anything
wrong. But obviously he had something against me.
I love my church I do. I’m in a transition with having a better relationship with God. However. Some of these stick out with me. The pastor we have almost 70% of the time continuously talks about how the rent needs to be paid offerings and money I feel like you talk about money too much and I don’t believe that that should be talked about 70% of the time in church? God forgive me for saying it but something just seems off.. it is a very small church as well. My dad can’t afford to have that guilt on his shoulders when he’s supposed to be worshipping and focusing on God not the churches bills…
I think what makes things worse is when someone tries to stand up to bullies, there are a lot of excuses, or claims that they know more, or worse, that they are forgiven, so it doesn’t matter what I think or how I feel. When I used to be at a church where people bullied, I reduced my attendance to maybe once every two months. I would only go back just to see if anything would be different. When people would ask me why I would not go to church, I would tell them it is because every time I am at church, people are just downright mean and don’t care about anything. When I said that, they just said that going to church will make people better. How does going to church make people better when they do not even make an effort to be better people. Bullies seem to know how preach “from the pulpit”, but they do not know how to carry out their faith. I am not necessarily talking about pastors, I am referring to members who think that they know it all. I think that the motto of every church should be practice what you preach.
Sometimes Bullies are in Leadership and no one will stand up to them as it seen as “speaking against Moses”
What’s worse is when you run to a church for sanctuary and you find the bully that is even larger than the one you were trying to get away from in the world! One that I belong to slanders relentlessly largely throughout your community and even gets inside your computer remotely and plays games so that you cannot even send an email to conduct your business. When finally you make progress then plays with the screen size until it is so small that you cannot even see enough to try and fix it. And that just a day after your dad dies…its the coldest most loveless place there is.
I agree so much with what you say regarding #7. The Body needs to stand together, and support what is right and true, as well as protecting the “fragrance” of our testimony by addressing this behavior. We are called to mercy, also to truth. These individuals that sow such damage can only continue if there are ears and hearts around them that tolerate the behavior.
Are there any church policies on anti bullying ? If not could you put one together to be used as a template?
There is very little literature on church bullying which is strange . We need more people to write on the subject and publish. we need specific websites dealing specifically dealing with church bullying!
Thanks
Steve
Thank you so much for raising this issue, Thom. Just a few weeks ago our pastor was forced out. I have learned that the ring leader was a church bully layman who worked with a staff person to get half truths and untruths out about our pastor. We lost a good man and a fine preacher over lies. I wish I had known ahead of time, and I would have confronted the issues and the people. Now I am looking for another church. Please pray for my family and me.
This is so true, but the sad part is that the bullies don’t or won’t recognize themselves but think they are right no matter what. Our church lost several good pastors, one right after the other , thanks to the bullying tactics of a few, one of which was our Church secretary. As soon as one pastor was chased out and a new pastor came, the bullies upped the ante and got increasingly uglier in their treatment of the good men they were bullying. After a bit of cleaning house over several years, we now have a well run Church and most of those who were in on the bullying have been silenced or have gone, some moved on and others have died. Isn’t it too bad that some people leaving the Church improves the effectiveness of the Pastor?
On a related subject; I have no patience with people who feel they are entitled. And all Churches have those people, too. No, it is not envy because I have had and still do have position/positions of leadership in the Church, both local and District.
I have prayed for you and your family, JP. I am truly saddened when any bully does his or her work. I am particularly saddened when the co-conspirator is a staff person.
Pray before leaving your church. The reason is that the bully will continue to cause problems after the next pastor arrives. I have dealt with bullies and they need to be confronted and stopped so Gods work can be permitted to continue.
I am so grateful you address such difficult issues, Thom. I am in a church where we like to sweep these matters under the rug, and pretend like they aren’t happening. Our churches will never get healthy until we are willing to see our sicknesses.
Thank you, Esther. May your numbers increase.
Putting church abuse into perspective
The Monday, March 1 Oregonian article via the Ashland Daily Tidings for same date (“Deceased priest who abused boys casts a shadow on the Northwest”) was very disturbing indeed! As a Christian, I must be direct, forward and morally/intellectually honest: Our churches have both the best and worst of people. Of course too does other segments of society as well. But let’s talk about churches and organized religion.
Though I myself was never sexually abused as these boys described in article, I’m certainly aware such does indeed happen in our churches. And I’m also certain some churches are worse than others.
Example: Prior to relocating to Ashland from Klamath Falls in 1986, I spent one year in a Church of Christ (non-instrumental) in Klamath Falls from 1982-83. Though there were some things I agreed with, there were other teachings I sharply disagreed and dissented with, including their sectarian/legalistic, dogmatic attitude of, “We are the only church and everyone else but us is wrong!”
After leaving that congregation I was the target of judgmental gossip and slander! And get this: This judgmental jerk within the congregation told me it “would be damnable if I left the church,” which I eventually did anyway.
Later, this same jerk was arrested for sexual abuse of a girl under 12 years of age! Yes, he was a predatory pedophile, a real creep! This is just one example of sexual abuse in our churches that, more often that not, remains covered up, hidden and suppressed. And that is downright criminal!
Another thing I find disturbing is the trend in our churches today of taking 1 Corinthians Chapter 7 out of context and using it against Christian singles. The dogmatic parroted, “It’s better to remain single than marry,” as preferred by the Apostle Paul, is an oppressive doctrine indeed! Most people who parrot this are religious elitists who are married anyway and have a significant other in their lives.
Though I have never read the book “Churches That Abuse,” by Ronald Enroth in 1992, it remains posted online via Google for reading. Yes, I have expressed my sentiments here. And furthermore I rightly feel that moral and intellectual honesty sees farther than does political and religious correctness.
So what is the answer to this? I feel a place to start is with this Bible passage from 1 Peter 4:17: “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God.”
James A. Farmer, Ashland
Tuesday, March 9th, 2010 Letters To The Editor
Note To Readers: I’m now a resident of Merrill, Oregon (Klamath County).
I can certainly relate to the issue of church abuse, religious criticism, etc.
In fact, the worse adversaries I have encountered, especially in the past,
have been the religious self righteous in the church, and not the ACLU:
American Civil Liberties Union which is at best atheistic, anti-Christian,
godless, socialist, and subversive against our constitutional republic! With the religious self righteous in our churches collectively, who needs
Satan as an accuser of the brethren?
When I was in seminary I was required to read a book called “Antagonists in the Church”, by Kenneth Haugk. I think that book should be required reading for every pastor. The author describes many of the traits you list in your blog, and gives some helpful advice for dealing with them. His key advice is: “Strength repels attack. Weakness invites it.” In my nearly 20 years as a pastor, I have found that to be quite true.
Good recommendation, Ken. Thank you.
I don’t know if you guys realize the impact you have made on the price of this book! I bought a copy on Amazon as soon as I read this the morning it was published for $8. Now I am trying to get more copies so we can “drain the swamp” and the price has risen to $23!
Amazing!
Antagonists in the Church is an excellent book.
Bullies may but do not have to be hard-liners. At times it seems like they are the same but the two distinctions can be applied separately. Sometimes the bully is who you least expect. It might be the person who seems the nicest, kindest, sweetest person imaginable.
How true! Recently I found this to be a fact.
You are so right, Mark. Sweet on the surface. Mean on the inside.
We have a bully in our church. It’s a woman and she has two minions. But when I first joined, she was hard to recognize because she gets other people to do her dirty work. She herself is always pleasant and tries to make sure the bad stuff never touches her. But the more you ask, “now where did you get that idea?” – the more her name comes up.
Thankfully the Lord has revealed her behavior to enough people, a Biblical response is being followed to counteract her activities. I pray she will repent and reconcile, but it is more likely that she will get bored with us and move on. It’s just so sad to make a list of all the people she has run off from the church already.
Ditto to what Hugh and Dr. Rainer said. It’s a sad reality, but a reality nonetheless.
Ain’t that the truth?
Sadly also, these “bullies” can be in the position of Senior Pastor, and the congregation is completely unaware of how he conducts business with his support staff behind the scenes…or they are too afraid or ill-equipped to know how to handle it when they DO finally see it. One expects “chairman of the deacon” bullies. . . but what can catch off guard those called to ministry–especially when the assignment, by nature, is an associate role (worship pastor, children’s minister, education/discipleship, etc)–is to realize you are now working for such a person. You would never expect it or know how to look out for it. And worse yet, once you’re in the situation, you’re completely at a loss for how to deal with it or expose it without delivering turmoil to the local church or getting fired on the spot.
You could even go so far as to say that one who is bullying from a leadership position could use the characteristics described in this article to stamp out opposition to their own bullying. The back flap of the book that Ken is talking about above talks about “tell(ing) the difference between constructive, healthy conflict and destructive antagonism” which would seem to be the key issue in any conflict that arises within the congregation.
If you can point at ANY dissenter and characterize them as a bully, then you can easily snuff out any kind of reform or accountability within the body.
I’m sure that the situations that are described in the main article actually happen, but I also think that you need to weigh how certain information can be leveraged otherwise.
ISorry, but you are completely naive or a bully yourself.
Thank you, Angie. I dealt with this issue earlier in my post on dysfunctional leaders.
Sorry Thom, I can’t find that post by searching dysfunctional leaders or scanning the posts. Is it me? Is it possible to post a link?
I don’t want it to be me.
God bless and greetings from the antipodes.
My fault, Michael. The title has “toxic leaders” instead of “dysfunctional leaders.” Here is the link: https://archive.thomrainer.com/2014/10/01/fourteen-symptoms-toxic-church-leaders/
You are quite correct: there’s no shortage of bullies among pastors. I’ve known a few of them personally.
I fear that articles like this are fuel for pastoral bullying (which is common and exists at every level of church leadership). If pastors are looking for the worst among their flock, they’ll find it—and use it. They’ll find the weak members and curry favor among them, etc. Main message of the Bible: Love one another.
Sounds a little like this, too.
http://krillco.hubpages.com/hub/Pastors-With-Covert-Narcissistic-Personality-Disorder
Thanks, Peter.
Mr. Rainer:
I find this post rather one-sided and would appreciate a follow-up post that acknowledges the ‘flip side’ of church bullying. For each of the nine points in this post, nine additional points can be easily made relevant to bullying on the part of church leadership (in response to a legitimate concern/question presented by a layperson or even another church staff person).
Certainly, there are always people who will want their own way, seek personal value from position/power, cause trouble if they don’t get their way, gossip, etc. The sad reality is that these ‘bullies’ don’t just exist outside of church leadership. Too often, bullying exists IN the leadership of the church.
Thank you for your consideration of my thoughts.
My comment to Angie C above, though appropriate there as well, was actually intended for you. Sorry about that.
Thom writes at the beginning of the post: “They tend to maneuver to get an official leadership position in the church, such as chairman of the elders or deacons or treasurer. But they may have bully power without any official position.” That says to me that the bullying often, perhaps most often, comes from people in leadership, but that it can also come from elsewhere, which seems to be in agreement what you are saying.
Esther –
These posts, by the nature of their brevity, do not have much space for point/counterpoint. If you think this article is one-sided, I would encourage you to read my post on dysfunctional leaders in the church. I dealt with the flip side several weeks ago.
Amen, Esther! My husband was a deacon in a church that was/is quite toxic. My husband gave really thought provoking sermons that he knew to be what God needed the congregation to hear. The priest was so arrogant that we think he must’ve seen my husband as competition, wherein he began to diminish my husband’s duties over time. On at least three occasions, this man felt compelled to publicly tease my husband about his accent. Having spoken to him directly and privately each time to stop, I felt an email was needed to have a record. I also heard inappropriate statements from male members of the congregation and began to see this as a potential spiritual problem. So I wrote an email, both to have a record in case the priest continued and because I was genuinely concerned about the spiritual health of the church. I wrote it as a member thereby considering it to be private. He left a calm message on my answering machine to give him a call back and when I did, he proceeded to ream me on the phone for ten minutes, starting with the words “HOW DARE YOU…” His only take away was to criticize me for not calling him by his title of “Father.” Then he demanded I apologize for that. Any other communication from me would jeopardize my husband’s position. I wish I had outlined the phone call in another email, but instead sent a heartfelt apology for not using his title. He then sent a response that stated something like “Was there some reason you needed to apologize?” He knew how to cover his bases, that’s for sure. Oh, and he admitted in the call that he had shown my private email to his (genuinely sweet) wife who he said replied “Well then, you’d better stop.”
My husband did not get the training he was expecting. He did not get to go on any hospital visits, no training for funerals, none for weddings and only received two chats over coffee in two years with this priest. They did have a secret meeting to try to oust my husband, which is against church canon. Fortunately, God gave us a heads up and we were able to get out relatively unscathed, though very wounded and suspicious of internal church politics.
It is a shame the power in that church is restricted to a couple of people who hold it in a death grip. Except for the one outreach ministry opportunity and an appeal to help a member of the congregation with desperately needed appliances, the only meaningful outreach this church has done is solely through the women’s ministry. Yet women are not given the respect they deserve. There are some wonderful, loving people in this church, but the difference is, they have no power.
We had other ideas for ministry outreach beyond the two we implemented, but the ideas were all shot down by the priest, yet he complained his congregation would not get involved in outreach. Hmmmmm…
Amen.
It’s one thing to identify the bullies, which is easy as a pastor (although most faithful church members know who they are too). Two questions;
1. What do you do when you Biblically confront the bullies, who then go out and divide the body telling lies, slander and spreading hate speech in the community while convincing half the membership to quit attending/tithing?
2. How do you go about getting the “body” to stand up to those few divisive members who remained?
Also, I might suggest an alternative term for the “bullies.” I would put forth they are actually “hostage takers.” They have taken the church members “hostage.” It is a fact that when someone is taken hostage, that over an extended period of time the hostages actually begin to identify with and become sympathetic to their hostage takers. The hostages will reason: “They take care of my needs, they give me food, they protect me, they have money and spend it whenever something’s broken. They’re the one’s who are always working to protect me/us from going bankrupt. They’re always here at church, every time the doors are open. And, they’re good, moral people…surely they love God and have His and “our” best interest in mind! These are the people who are taking care of us, for crying out loud!
The new term I heard recently for the concept of gaining complete control of a church through these actions seems to fit well.
That term is “Steeple-jacking”.
Steeple-jacking! Great term!
My current situation includes an older lady that has been released from various volunteer positions (kitchen, laundry etc.) due to her hostile attitude and issues with so many people. Her final place to volunteer is children’s ministry. (What?!) She is in the kindergarten Sunday School room with 4 teachers. She is very disruptive by speaking over the teacher, confusing the materials, talking about inappropriate issues in the classroom and bad mouthing the teachers and director to the parents. Sadly, the list can continue for a mile. The other teachers are overwhelmed/scared of her. She calls me at all times of the day/night. Sometimes I receive 10+ phone calls a day. She doesn’t respect the boundaries that have been set at all. I have prayed about this matter, spoken with my director and really tried to be loving and patient. Last week, she disrespected the teaching team, me and my 8 year old daughter. The pastors and director called her in for a meeting. She was very upset and called my house over and over. I spoke to her in a calm and kind manner. She blames me for her choice to leave the church. The Pastors did not ask her to leave at all. I am now a target for her and I feel all alone with this issue. What should I do??
You need to consult an attorney and get a restraining order. Record her messages, then block her phone number. Keep her emails. Gather evidence against this woman, because you’ll need it should you take her to court. “Praying it away” is not going to stop this mentally-disturbed woman from harassing and bullying you. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with authorities. You will continue to suffer if you don’t do something now. She is seriously disturbed and will continue to make your life miserable.
I serve a church that is run by bullies. Each one looks and behaves a little bit differently. Their behavior is always excused as “oh, that’s just how they are.” What the congregation as a whole and the leadership do not realize is that the behavior of these folks is what drives people away and what keeps new people from coming in. As the pastor, I’ve been told to “suck it up” and “get a thicker skin” when I’ve approached those in leadership about this issue.
Thank you for raising this issue. It is incredibly important for the health of any community/congregation. And it needs to be the topic of many conversations.
Thank you, Alex.
Alex,
Unfortunately I believe our colleagues in ministry is a large part of why so many are leaving ministry monthly.
“Going along to get along” almost did our church body in. Unfortunately, in our case, the bully was the pastor. He had apparently formed his idea of what the church would look like, and we “tried and true saints” were not part of the agenda. Praise God we got some backbone and pushed back enough–and still had the votes–so he left. Once burned, twice shy. We’ll be much more aware of this type of conduct in the future.
hmmmm … one might construe by your “having the votes” and “being aware of this type of conduct in the future” that “you” didn’t like being out of control … that’s a pretty common factor in churches with bullies… Certainly this readership can’t know the personal facts of your particular case Lee but make no mistake , red flags abound when a pastor is forced out because folks “had the votes” … Many dynamic churches have fallen into decline and decay because “tried and true saints” was just code for “those in power like things the way they’ve always been”. Blessings
Lee –
Are you the executive pastor of a church in Tennessee?
Great article! I confronted a church bully last year, they chose to leave the church and the church has grown healthier since.
Thanks, Adron.
“Antagonist in the Church,” is a good one. I’ve also found, “Behind the Masks: Personality Disorders in Religious Behavior,” by Wayne E. Oates an invaluable resource too. Bullies who are not dealt with will simply become somebody else’s problem. Loving Church Discipline (Restorative Discipleship) will fix #7 on your list.
Thanks, Randy.
#10 They will lead off with saying, “I love this church and that is why God has put it on my heart to say (x), to do (x)… In many situations where their is a patriarch system in place, to keep control everything is under the heading of “doing this for the church WE ALL LOVE.”
So true.
There are times when the bully truly believes that they are doing what God intends them to do for the church. That is one reason that the church as a whole must be part of the solution. Such bullies see a confrontation from one person or a small group of people as an attack on them. They perceive it as others trying to bully them out of their area(s) of ministry.
Thom,
I agree with most of your blog but would like to make two comments. I find the bully usually does not rear their bullying head until there is a change in clergy. I agree they will move on to another church and will say they are very happy there when they arrive. Whether it is because they have sought a church that meets their other needs so bullying can take a rest, or whether it is to prove to others they arent’ chronic complainers, I don’t know. Then, when there is a change in clergy (sometimes in other church staff) the bullying resurfaces. The worst case of this is when the bully also has a perceived or unperceived “crush” on the minister who leaves.
The other comment I would like to make is the denominational compliance with the bully. Unless the bully is actually breaking the law (and sometimes even then) the denomination will not do anythign to stop the bully. Sometimes it is in the name of “inclusion”, sometimes it’s “to welcome the sinner and help them”,and I have heard many other excuses. I personally believe that it is a misguided “the customer is always right” attitude. Also, many churches are simply tired of any of their dirty laundry being publicly displayed and feel that keeping quiet and trying to smooth things over is seen as the best approach.
Well said, MJ. Thank you.
MJ, I would like to just expand on your first point. It is not only when a new pastor comes, but when any kind of change in the church happens, that the church bullies rear their heads. My husband has pastored the same church for over 25 years, which has grown slowly but steadily all that time. In the early days, the matriarch of a family of bullies told him “Pastor, nobody can work with you!” The fact was, everybody else in the then tiny congregation could work with him just fine– only this family couldn’t. They left, happily, and thereafter wandered about the various other churches of our denomination in the area but never could get their way with any of them. Now as we have growing pains with a cramped building, new stresses occur– including new would-be bullies. And a similar refrain is heard — “The pastor is micro-managing” or “a control freak” ….but it’s only certain individuals who grumble about this behind the back. Really it’s that they simply didn’t get their way about certain issues where the majority of the congregation supported the pastor and the board.
Thanks for posting these nine traits, Dr. Rainer. I’ve seen church bullies in more than one congregation I’ve pastored. Leaders must stand up to them, but not attack them. Often a bully will intimidate and one moment, and play the victim the next, so great care must taken in how they are resisted. Placating them however, only does greater damage to the church as a whole.
Good word, David. Thank you.
Thanks for posting these nine traits, Dr. Rainer. I’ve seen church bullies in more than one congregation I’ve pastored. Leaders must stand up to them, but not attack them. Often a bully will intimidate in one moment, and play the victim the next, so great care must taken in how they are resisted. Placating them however, only does greater damage to the church as a whole.
Thanks again for bringing this important issue to light. Sadly, you are correct right at the start that these persons usually do not see themselves as the bullies they are. When confronted with the truth and ample evidence of their mean spirited and manipulative tactics, they bristle and vehemently deny they are the problem. Indeed, they see themselves involved in a divine effort to save the church. I know some of the comments today point out that pastors can be bullies also. While this is true, from my viewpoint as a pastor, this is far from the norm. Typically, the pastor is seeking to lead the church, preach the Word, and minister to the people. The bully has an agenda that runs counter to all the pastor is doing. I have dealt with these persons in every church I have served and they are always a nightmare. The nice people in the church tend to get out of the bully’s way and who can blame them?
Those who feel bullied by a pastor, let me ask you a question; has your bully physically threatened you, yelled at you and cursed you – using all the four letter words, spied on you to see when your car was at the church or at home, led a movement to have you fired, and publicly attacked you in a business meeting? I have endured all of these and more during my 30 years as a pastor. I am amazed I am still a pastor after all the abuse I have endured from these miserable persons. They represent all that is wrong with church today and are a primary reason churches everywhere are dying.
God bless you, and while you’re at it, pray for me and pastors everywhere.
You are definitely in my prayers, Dan. I have a great love for pastors; they are regularly a part of my prayer life.
Thanks brother Thom, you have a pastor’s heart and you understand the challenges we face. God bless you for this ministry which daily blesses and encourages me. Please allow me one clarification; I’ve been in ministry 30 years, 23 as a pastor.
Thanks again for the prayers and concern.
Have a blessed day.
How about physical assault…then the church members say…”why can’t you just overlook it?”
Thom,
Thank you for this post. I know many pastors like myself have experienced this in revitalization efforts.
I am so incredibly disheartened by the comments. There is a clear ‘us versus them’ mentality that exists between leaders and churches, and very likely a major cause of why many churches are plateauing. Is this mentality prevalent, or just loud? I would enjoy reading more on reasons why churches call “bad” leaders (if the issue is primarily bad leaders or a church’s lack of willingness to be led), and, conversely, what long-term effects are apparent or anticipated from churches reorganizing their governance structures in response to the bad leaders they call. One thing is for sure, our prayer for our churches must increase.
You are so right, Colin. I expressed this concern in a blog post many months ago. I am saddened to see the pervasiveness of the “us versus them” mentality.
Its the American culture (in the workplace its management versus employees, Government leaders versus the voters … etc).
I agree wholeheartedly with your comment. The “church” in America has become so “corporate” minded that it mirrors the workplace of any major corporation. The CEO is brought in by the “board” to fix the organization and there is never a true engagement of the people. The us versus them mentality is so prevalent and it classifies people into roles in the church so they can be handled as a commodity. The assembly of a church should be a family with transparency, honesty, love, and Christ as the head. When will the “church” have the guts to be honest and let Christ lead? To many pastors are trying to be “leaders” instead of loving shepherds. I put quotes around most terms because they seem to have completely lost any biblical meaning today.
Amen.
This is so spot on it is hard to keep my composure. I am a pastor in the PC(USA) who just had my second call end prematurely due to the overwhelming efforts of bullies in each church. This was paired with the completely toothless church government doing what ever they could to back the church instead of me. Despite evidence and witnesses to the abuse I received, I was thrown under the bus and was lucky to get out with my sanity intact.
Thom, thank you for your work. The comments section is no place for it, but I’d like to have the chance to tell my story to you. I was also wondering if you have any resources or suggestions for pastors recovering from this kind of beat down.
Blessings upon your ministry.
Thank you, Blake. I will have someone contact you. You are in my prayers, friend.
The most difficult issue with Church bullying when it is your pastors wife. Our female members are leavimg and resigning from ministry positions while the weak staff and church members are unwilling to confront her. I have with catastrophic results. I am my pastors 22 year Adm. Asst.
Thank you for this post. I have seen this and I have stood up to them and it has cost me a church family. What troubles me the most, is that, some of the leaders I have known in the past, are not open to hearing what is not working, but only want to receive the praises. I feel, if one is hurting, then that is one too many. If one is hurting, there may be two, three or more. Not only are WE the ones who must be open to self awareness, but the church leadership must be open to self awareness. I stop and wonder, if they only knew what was “not working”, maybe they could do something about it or try to maybe rigth a wrong and make a difference. A church bully, can be in very small churches and also in a very large church and it would be my hope that church leadership would be aware of all the under currents brewing and possibly about to wash out the foundations that some operate on. I think, if they only knew, would they take a stand. I am proud to say, I finally found a church where my gut instict is “What can I do to help them” and I believe it had to with a pastoral staff who strives to know each person on a personal level and truly know its members hearts. That builds trust and I think a chuch that knows it’s flock well, would squash a bully enviroment! Thank you for the article, always thought provoking. – Also, if any church bullies are reading this, I woudl like to offer you some advice: IF you are hurting, tell someone, as it is why most bullies are bullies. You are loved, whether you believe or not and we need your passion used for some greater good, missions and furthering the kingdom. If you think you have bullied or you know flat out that you are a bully, ask Jesus to change your heart and show you how you can make mend fences instead of burn bridges. If think none of this applies to you, then, re-read #1 and start over. None of us are perfect, but we are striving to be, or we would not be on this site reading great articles. ~ Thank You ~
Good word, Darren.
I am a united methodist pastor that has had two recent appointments with intense problems with church bullies. What is most problematic, however, is my ecclesiastical superiors are very reluctant to get involved or at least are involved in a superficial way. What should I do?
Unfortunately, Robert, such confrontation is best handled by members in the church. It is unfortunate because most members will not stand up to bullies.
another good resource on the subject is Marshall Shelley’s book, “Well Intentioned Dragons”
It is a classic. Thanks.
Marshall Shelley’s book “Well Intentioned Dragons” does not give an example of healthy correcting of those in power. It is written from the stance those in power are always right and anyone who disagrees with them is a Well Intentioned Dragon. Do you have a problem with leadership? You do? well that proves it, you are actually the problem.
Yep, “Well-Intentioned Dragons” is another one I highly recommend.
What do you do when the Pastor is the bully? This can happen too!
Amanda –
Please read other comments on this post.
Another point: They invoke God. They will say things like “God told me…” or “God revealed to me…” We have to check these statements against Scripture and ask the Holy Spirit for discernment.
For sure.
So Bullie’s invoke God, you know who else does? Non-Bullies.
It can be problematic to tell people if someone corrects you in the church or shares a word from God that you are dealing with a church Bully. I think we need a bit better or clearer set of guidelines.
Having been in the ministry for over 20 some years I have seen the truth of what Thom R. is stating in his article on Church Bullies. They are present, and can impede the Spiritual progress of a church in significant ways leading people down a primrose path which in the end is destructive in nature to individuals and the local church. The most insidious though, in my opinion, is the easy going person who slowly gains the respect and trust of individuals, especially those in leadership. They, like the other “Bully” types, accomplish the same end Thom R. is warning about in this article. However, they a little harder to identify due to their slow and methodical method which appears to be Biblical in nature but may be cloaked in “legalism” of one form or the other. This is a very good article written through the experience of a Godly, well educated person. Ministers and Churches should take this subject to heart due to its destructive nature which will cripple a local church and its ministry!
PS- Are ministers exempt from Church Bully status? Certainly NOT.
Thanks, Hugh.
How can you tell if you yourself or someone else are a bully or just a strong person God is using as an agent of change? For instance I would like our church to do some sort of mission work, we currently spend zero dollars on mission work. When I bring this up I am accused of wanting to get my way.
If I use the Bible to point out we should do mission work I am accused of being manipulative. When I disagree with an idea I am always accused of having an agenda. When I push for leadership accountability I’m told I just want to do church my way.
I have a very dynamic personality and people are drawn to me for my strength of character, how do I keep that from being seen as #4? I’ve been told because people like me and listen to me it creates a problem. I am asked, “why can’t you just go along with the program?”
Often people ask me if I can talk to leadership about a problem they are having but they are afraid to speak up because they are afraid they will be labeled as insubordinate; in those instances so I can protect someone’s identity I will use the phrase, “people are saying…”
Because I push for change (mostly on matters which you Thom have put on your “traits of a dying church” list I get accused of creating chaos and disrupting the peaceful fellowship.
There are many of the items on the bully list I don’t see interest me at all, such as creating alliances with weak members (though I do try to encourage them) or finding a weak church to run roughshod in.
I am contemplating leaving my current church because the leadership refuses to change or even admit there is a problem, but now do I find myself contemplating #9? Would I even be able to tell if I were a bully? I sense God’s leading, I have scriptural support for all my actions, and I have accountability with a group of unbiased men; but still when I speak up at my church I’m accused of being overly critical. If I was a bully would I be able to tell?
This is quite a strange post to me, no offence please, because none is intended. Asking others if your a bully over the internet is like asking a telemarketer if you have a booger in your nose when you have a camera on your phone.
The bible is basis of our introspection. If YOU know your pursuing God’s will in your life, and you have carefully, calmly, lovingly, tried to direct your local congregation towards what you believe it should be doing, and it isn’t budging, you might need to move. If you keep pushing you may indeed be the cause of problems.
That doesn’t mean your wrong or the church is wrong necessarily, but it just may be God’s way of moving you where he wants you. Love, peace, patience, kindness through Christ alone: these are what change people, not accurate observation, or strong personalities.
I guess it depends on what the telemarketer is selling, or perhaps you deal with a whole other breed of telemarketers. 🙂
I think labeling people as Bullies is too easy, it creates an “us and them” mentality. It makes someone a problem to be avoided, stepped over, or worked around. I know the vanity of my own heart makes me susceptible to assuming I’m right and I don’t have to invest in someone if I can label them as a chronic problem or ignore all their future comments or concerns because I’ve devalued them.
I don’t think there is a whole separate class of people who are prone to being Bullies, I think it is a problem like lying. Question, Who lies? Answer: Liars. See that answer is way too simple; because actually all of us lie, that doesn’t mean lying defines us. I’m betting we have all been the Bully at one time or another.
Hello. I am dealing with many of the issues you list. I am a 25 year member of a church. I am also a 21 year staff member. I received the Holy Spirits gift of,Evangelism at the point of salvation in 1988. In the early 80’s our church was on the street, sharing Christ door to door, working with our public school across the street, and ministering to the community (the physical AND spiritual). The Lord blesssed and our church was run over with an overwhelming number of babies, children, teens, youth, and adults. We were setting chairs in the aisles and hire a bus company to help pick up our children. There were so many we had to have a Friday night children’s service. Then it all began to fade away. Our church became a hub of busyness and activity and genuine ministry has ceased. I have been appointed Evangelism Directory numerous times but the efforts to convince our church to ,”return to it’s first love” has been fruitless. I too am met with opposition. Scripture commands us to “Go Ye” and not “stay in. I recently asked for permission to arrrange a whole church outing to see the movie “Do You Believe?” that challenges the church to return to the Biblical mandate of setting aside our selfishness as Christians-to pick up our cross-to lose our comfortable lives-and follow Him, hoping it would reignite the fire and move us away from busyness back to authentic ministry. It has fallen on deaf ears. I still hold the title as Evangelism Director -( its still a title only as nothing is being implemented )but I do not need a title to share the Gospel or distribute Bibles or minister in my community. As the Hymn goes
“Though no one join me, still I will follow.” However, there is always HOPE.
Thanks G, you hang in there. I’m encouraged by your story and your spiritual stamina. May God bless your efforts to serve Him.
>How can you tell if you yourself or someone else are a bully or just a strong person God is using as an agent of change?
In _Antagonists in the Church_ by Kenneth Haugk, there was a statement along the lines that the Antagonist does not think that they are being antagonistic.
Where that book falls short, is that it defines Antagonists as being either unwilling, or unable to provide specific examples of either what is “wrong”, and, equally unwilling, or unable, to provide specific examples of what they would consider to be a minimally acceptable satisfactory solution, from their point of view.
All of which is a very round about way of saying:
# Clearly state what you are sensing:
* What do I see?
* What do I hear?
* What do I touch?
* What do I taste?
* What do I physically feel?
# Clearly state what your thoughts are:
* Here is what I think is going on;
# Clearly state what your current feelings/emotions are:
* I am glad;
* I am sad;
* I am mad;
* I am angry;
* I am frustrated;
# Clearly state what your wants are:
* For your self;
* For the person / people one is addressing;
* For other involved people;
* For other uninvolved people;
# Clearly state what actions:
* You have taken in the past;
* You will take now;
* You will take in the future;
(Sorry, I don’t remember where I first came across that communication sequence. It is deliberately “I-Centric”, because one can only be responsible for one’s own actions. The only way other people can only know what you want, is when you both clearly explain why you want something done, then what you want done, and then waht you will do.)
@ The more specific you are in providing examples of behaviour that is undesirable, the less likely it is that you are being a bully;
@ The more specific you are in providing “ideal solutions” and “minimally acceptable solutions”, the less likely it is that you are being a bully;
@ The more willing you are, to advocate the reasons why your proposal is a bad idea, the less likely it is that you are being a bully. (The easy part is seeing both the good and the bad in one’s proposals. The hard part is being able to advocate against one’s proposal.);
>in those instances so I can protect someone’s identity I will use the phrase, “people are saying…”
Don’t say: “people are saying”. Instead:
# Before going to leaders, find out what the specific person would consider to be:
* The ideal solution;
* The minimally acceptable solution;
When going to leaders:
* Give a specific number. Lowball the count, if you don’t know the exact number;
* Use the phrase “I have been told by χ people that”, and then give exact quotes;
* Tell the leaders the ideal solution, that those individuals told you;
** Be willing and able to negotiate down to the minimal acceptable solution;
All this assumes that you can communicate with leaders. Something that is not always possible, especially when they are the Antagonists dividing the congregation.
FWIW, I think that _Antagonists in the Church_ should be read, and applied, by everybody in a leadership position in a congregation, every two to three years.
Thanks Jonathon, I will hunt down the book Antagonists in the Church.
I like your analytical approach, it will help me organize my thoughts.
I guess for me my big question is motive. What separates the motives of a church reformer from a church bully? Would a church in the middle of a reformation, turn-around, replant, renewal, etc. view even a good godly man as being antagonistic? I know God does the changing of hearts, but I also know He uses a man after His own heart to be the agent of change.
Maybe instead of listing the actions of church bullies, we could find a list of what motivates a church bully.
I’m one of the most peace loving and easy going people I know, but when I see problems in the church or unbiblical practices or watered down gospel presentations or endless inward focused social activities passed off as the norm for church life, I just can’t sit idle. Jesus means too much for me to settle for comfortable unfruitful church life.
Excellent post. What you are experiencing is a toxic organization and no answer is the right answer unless the leadership came up with it. My suggestion would be to pray and ask for direction. When direction is perceived, just follow it with no question. It is not your responsibility to fight everyone’s battles, but it is your responsibility to follow the Holy Spirit’s leading. Too many things have no Biblical base in the church. It would do the church well to just get back to the gospel and drop the social activities. The social side needs to happen authentically instead of driven from leadership. I truly believe the church can be “forced” to assemble too much which creates many of these problems. Instead of coming in, maybe we should do some going out.
Thanks Flybranch. I believe every church has problems, I’m slow to label any church as toxic. I trust Jesus will protect and prune the Church since He died to have her for His own. I will consider your words of wisdom.
I would encourage you to take stock of both your motives and your methods. Are you merely pointing out problems in the church, or you actually proposing solutions? I’ve been a pastor for almost 20 years,and few things are more frustrating to me than people who do the former and not the latter. Time and again I’ve had people who come to me and say, “The church needs to be doing such-and-such”. I respond by saying, “Great. When would you like to start?” Then the person responds, “Well, I can’t do it, but somebody ought to….” Or they say the church needs to be doing more outreach, but then they never show up for visitation, or they always find some excuse to avoid working in the church.
Anybody can point out problems in the church, but talk is cheap. If you’re not actually working to fix the problem, then your criticism is tearing the church down instead of building it up.
Thom,
Having been the target of church bullies, I learned in dealing with “people are saying,” to respond, “Oh, how many people are saying?” and/or “How many people are saying?” Often when they are forced to identify or quantify the “people who are saying,” you come to realize that the people who are saying… is the person standing in front of you.
That is absolutely true.
Good subject. “some people say that” = favorite useless thing to hear of all time. If you can’t stamp your name on it, don’t expect me to sign. Healthy confrontation is what all bullies need. Force them to answer the hard questions, and they will likely leave. Ministers need to be approachable so no one feels the need to hide behind the anonymity of “some people” statements. If that’s the environment you produce, and you still get “some people” advice, do yourself a favor, and put and end to it.
“Ministers need to be approachable”. True statement, but that is not always the case. Some ministers bristle up anytime they PERCEIVE their authority is questioned. Young ministers should especially understand that older members can teach them quite a bit if they are willing (and vice versa). Once a minister gains the trust of his congregation–the sky is the limit. Not everyone bringing a possible problem to the forefront is a bully.
Absolutely!
“Ministers need to be approachable so no one feels the need to hide behind the anonymity of ‘some people’ statements.”
People will do the “some people” routine regardless of whether or not the pastor is approachable. If your grievance is not important enough for you to own it, then it’s not important enough for your pastor to waste his time worrying about it.
I’d like to see another point: They are incapable of healthy confrontation. Your confrontation with them typically brings out their explosive personality, rendering any sort of healthy confrontation helpless.
This seems to be a trending personality trait of bullies.
And on the other hand. A point for church members under the reign of a church bully.
The battered believer syndrome: When a church member who is so terribly fearful of angering the church bully that they forever tiptoe around them, or even (unfortunately) reinforce their bullying by joining them in their campaigns in an attempt to befriend them.
Good point, Cody.
This is a very interesting article, if a bit one sided. I have served on the music staff of my church for over 26 years and been a deacon for 27 years. Right before his death, my grandfather wisely told me “son, don’t ever let any make you think your pastor is your enemy.” Wise words that I have lived by. I have loved all of my pastors dearly and been good friends with them. I have seen our pastors deal with bullies, but for the most part the congregation has always been very loving to our pastors and staff (when they would let us love them). The worst bullies we ever encountered in our church in my 30 years there were ironically a minister and his wife that operated a local ministry (non-pastoral) and were members of our church. Their political moves caused a LOT of disharmony and damaged the sweet fellowship that our mid sized church enjoyed. Eventually, they got enough rope to hang themselves. However, it took years to restore some of the relationships that were damaged.
Conversely, in the ever changing modern church, congregations need to be very careful about those they place in leadership positions (including pastorates). Many pastors spend too much time reading the latest “how to” book about how this or that group is “doing church”. Churches are losing focus on Christ. Pastors should seek God’s direction for their churches instead of following what the mega-churches are doing. For many years, Rick Warren and Billy Hybels were the ultimate authority on church as opposed to scripture. I have sadly watched some of our sister churches go through terrible struggles with aloof pastors that want “their way or the highway”. Whether the bully is a lay person or a part of the ministerial staff, God is not pleased by such behavior. Ministers and lay people should NEVER be covert with their mission in a church.
The church of Jesus Christ needs a fresh touch from the Lord instead of trying to following the latest trend or gimmick in church growth circles.
May God help pastors to love and lead His people and may His people love and pray for their pastors.
Mac
#7 is one of my biggest frustrations! No one wants to rock the boat or cause a problem so they remain silent. I’m looking forward to your article Weds because there seems to be such a lack of “how to” in the church. Bullying makes me crazy. There is always a bully or two in the church too. And I’ve noticed they are very good at getting in as good buddies with whom ever is in charge. This is a much needed topic in the church.
Thanks, Mel. Let me know what you think on Wednesday.
#7. Oh #7. Much of the silence among members is to avoid drama, yet, their pastor and friend takes on the brunt of it. Baffling. And yet, one has to admit that the pastor often knows more of the dynamics of relationships, and HAS to keep silent due to confidentiality–all the while the members wonder WHY the pastor is not beating down the path and on the “threatening-to-leave” bullies door to keep them from leaving the church. No, it’s not going to happen, so yet again the pastor is not stood up for. There really are two sides to every problem, and if there is a concerned church member reading this and truly you want to know the truth to something, ask! Ask the bully, ask the pastor, ask, ask, ask. Ask specific questions. Pray. Pray. Pray–before acting. Encourage a sit-down-we-want-to-understand with both parties present. Hash it out. Don’t be talking behind anyone’s back. The church is the Body of Christ, and we all work together; Christ is our Head–no one else can fill this role. We all represent our Saviour to a lost and dying, hopeless world…the community gets wind of rifts; who wants to join a congregation who bickers and fights and strives for upmanship. Not I!
Wow, look at all the comments. If it hadn’t been for the grace of God #7 would have mortally wounded me. I’m presently pastoring a church without a bully.
You are blessed, Clayton!
I’ve been bullied before as a Pastor. However, I’ve learned that as long as I continue to preach God’s Word, the bully generally leaves. Moreover, I let him know that I wouldn’t be leaving!
There you go.
There you go!
Thank God for our Lord’s promise in Matthew 16:18. Thank God for His command in Romans 16:17 among all the wonderful people. Titus 3:10; 1 Corinthians 1:10. Pride is the root cause of this sinful people. As a pastor I pray for my church and all the families for their protection and preach His word (Acts 20:27-36)
I was bullied in school, and I was bullied as a pastor.
Thank you for what you have said. Much more could be said on this, because church bullies use many of the same tactics that school bullies do.
Tim
Thank you as well, Tim.
Thank you for this incredible power post!
I am member of a small non-denominational congregational church. When I volunteered to serve as Treasurer I had no idea what I would discover. I was horrified that there were members of the leadership and the congregation who wanted to cover up years of fiscal malfeasance enables by a lack Board oversight.
It was not until I read this blog post that I realized the problem – bullies, These elders and long-time members had done their best to hamstring the leadership, using their congregational pledges as bargaining chips. They had succeeded to replace the congregation’s mission of encouraging members to search for meaning with one that served their personal interests.
An outside consultant was brought in to hold “healing circles” that gave the bullies a sanctioned forum. The fiscal problems were swept under the rug and those who sought to restore the church’s financial integrity have been targeted and shunned and subjected to the constant hum of self-righteous indignation.
Now I realize that it is time to move on and seek a church that is true to its religious mission. Thank you for helping me gain clarity.
Bless you, Charles.
My child is the one that is targeted by bullies. For three reasons: I’m not a respected member where I attend (my husband won’t attend with me so I have no ‘voice’), my child is socially awkward and third (but by by no means the least); we are not life long members. I see the children of the elders being embraced for the same traits my child has and when my child behaves in the same manner you can spot looks of disgust in many faces. It’s heart breaking. My husband almost refused to let me bring my child back. But shortly after it built up I quit going (for health related reasons). I however returned two years later after having not attended elsewhere but continuing my walk with the Lord in His word and by listening to podcasts, watching sermons (online) and attending confrences.
I made the difficult decision to return to the same place because I believe it would not be a good testimony to my child if I gave up, due to ‘bad feelings’. This place has solid doctrine, doesn’t wander into drawn out personal storytelling and digs deeply into God’s word anytime they get together (even if it’s for a baby shower!).
It seems impossible to deal with because the child who is the biggest bully is quite sly about it, adept at hiding what he’s doing.
I live in a small city, and have’t found alternatives in my area but it’s difficult going to a place where they all seem like family since they’ve known eachother for decades & then there’s us. Maybe you could address how to welcome (and be consistant with) new members when you’re congregation is 100 or less. Or how to teach your children inclusiveness. One would think it would be important to Christian parents but shockingly I find it’s the Christian world that rejects my child most.
Jenny –
I hurt for you and your child. I am praying for both of you right now.
Honestly Brother, it meant so much to me reading your comment tonight. Maybe it’s silly but I’m sitting here with grateful tears, that someone out there has compassion about this concern I’ve had so long. Thank you. Praying for you and your ministry right now.
When I was in elementary school, and continuing somewhat into High School, I had no trouble getting along with other kids at school but was mercilessly bullied by other kids at church. A lot of it boiled down to the fact that most of them went to a Christian school and I went to public school. And sadly I was typically the who got punished by Sunday School teachers or youth leaders because I’d get caught retaliating or defending myself. Looking back I feel it was only by the grace of God that I never held their behavior against God or the church in general.
Now that I’m a youth pastor I try to keep a watchful eye out for the “good Christian kids” who are bullying others in the shadows. It happens far too often. In fact, as I read this article the first church bully that came to mind was a former teen from my youth group.
I am praising God in my heart for men like you, who are willing to truly shepherd His young flock. May you continue to bless the underdogs.
sorry to hear this. May God bring you and your family comfort and blessings, and allow you to move on and forgive, and one day allows you to see justice.
Brother Thom, I was a member of “Simple Church”, and my wife and I were bullied out of the adult Sunday School class. An old, founding member widow bullied me out of the pulpit, going so far as to call the police one Sunday because I wouldn’t resign per her demand; then #7 took place, and I was left twisting in the wind…church would be a wonderful place if it weren’t for the people…oh, wait… 😉 Grace and Peace, Brother!
Another book I highly recommend is “Leading Your Church Through Conflict and Resolution”, edited by Marshall Shelley. It has a great chapter called “Wars You Can’t Win”. I don’t want to discourage anyone on this blog, but the reality is, sometimes the pastor is fighting a losing battle.
A group of people have emerged to stand up to the bullying in the Greek Orthodox Churches of Chicago…hundreds of people have signed the petition against the bullying but the numbers should be much higher. People still are too reluctant to attach their own name:
http://www.goccl.org
Thom, don’t know if you’ve ever read/heard about this book; “PASTOR ABUSERS
When Sheep Attack Their Shepherd” by Kent Crockett & Mike Johnston. I came across it this morning and will be ordering it. I already ordered the “Antagonists” book someone referenced in an earlier post. My wife and daughters have been devastated by numerous attacks by so-called “sheep.” Pray for us and any counseling you may be able to direct us to would be appreciated. This quote from the book is DEAD-ON: “Pastor abuse is the church scandal that no one is talking about. The mistreatment of clergy is as horrifying as it is secretive, and the casualties are reaching epidemic proportions.”
Thanks, Zolton. I am ordering it now.
I’ve not read that one, but I’ll very likely be looking for it.
It is really sad when the pastor is the church bully. That was the case in our church. We left the church for a while but wrote a letter to the pastor and his wife telling them how we felt. Ironically he resigned about three weeks later. We now have a new pastor and our little church is growing by leaps and bounds.
Elizabeth Thorpe
Fresno, CA
Bullies tend to be suffering from low self-esteem. Bullies in our schools turn into these adult bullies. They lack self-esteem, they have no real friends. They however have “hanger ons” that watch the circus the bullies create and laugh along with them. All these folks need our dear prayers, that God will forgive them and help them stop their malicious behaviors.
this is a subject that the Lord has laid on my heart recently. I am doing a devotion in April and I believe this is the subject he wants me to touch on. Can you give me any advice and or verses that will help me with this very touchy subject.
Something I have discovered about bullies is that even after they have left a church they can continue to exert an influence on it. I had a couple of bullies in my current church (a deacon and his wife) who I eventually spoke to about their divisive behavior (following the Matthew 18 principle) with the result that I was told to leave his house and never speak to him again. For about a year after their departure, things were so much better in the church as there was a spirit of unity and desire to serve that had not been there before.
However, over the last year a spirit of growing discontent, suspicion, and apathy has become apparent in the church. I was rather confused what the issue was and where it was coming from (receiving only the vague “people are saying…” kind of commentary that did not give me enough detail to address any problems). However, I eventually discovered that people in the church leadership who are friends of the bullies have been listening to and spreading their continued slanderous statements. I was unaware of what was going on until it exploded into the open at a series of meetings where my pay was cut and I was wrongfully accused of numerous things. At this point I am having to look for a new church to pastor. Now I know to beware of churches that have been through 3 pastors in 10 years!
For future reference, do you have any advice on how to handle a bully acting from outside the church?
My husband (pastor) was forced to resign with no charges by “bullies”, they met all the traits you described….they were our deacons and treasurer and few hidden leaders. It was so sad…the head deacon was even our children’s youth leader, they have been very hurt by this. We’ve been in ministry for 17 years and I don’t want to go back into ministry again because of all the politics and control. Soooo sad!!
Our church just went through an ugly situation with a church bully. Fortunately, for the first time in many years the leadership and other members stood their ground against this individual and resistance became so unbearable for this person that he and his family finally left the congregation.
For this bully the entire issue was his personal power struggle; with nothing taking place within this congregation unless it had his personal stamp of approval. He even resorted to one-on-one hallway threats and intimidation. New folks were viewed by this individual as a potential threat and he was quick to make it know who was in charge.
Problem is…..even though this person has left the church they are still trying to undermine and draw others away from the flock from the outside; making personal contact with church members; anyone who will listen.
Hindsight is telling us that the leadership should have publically exposed this very divisive person from the very beginning; as now they may be even more dangerous to the health of this flock. This bully had been de-throned and is now being driven by arrogance and a bruised pride. A dangerous combination.
Thank you for this post, Dr. Rainer. I’ve witnessed the damage done by unchecked bullies in more than one church. But thankfully, I’ve also seen the glorious power of the Gospel in brothers and sisters who recognize that their strong personalities could lead them to bully others, and choose to humble themselves by the power of the Spirit. People with this kind of self-awareness often become respected leaders in the church, who use their strength to serve others.
#1 is really important, many times a bully has the best of intentions and motives and doesn’t realize they are being a bully. Also, it should be noted that bullying behaviors many not be a consistent part of a person’s behavior profile, but that bullying behavior may be a stress response.
Understanding it this way can help pastors to minister to the person who is only being a bully because it is an expression of their shadow side.
I think we need to remember that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Secondly, in a crisis situation, dictatorship is the most effective form of leadership, but such leadership is much less effective in other, calmer situation. However, I cannot conceive of a situation in a church, except for a fire happening during a service of worship, where dictatorship is an appropriate form of leadership.
It has been my experience that a lot of church bullies, or people who sow strife in general often “spiritualize” their reasons for doing so yet often exhibit a lack of spiritual fruit in their lives.
“… lack of spiritual fruit in their lives.”
Amen. You’ll know them by their fruit. One of the greatest mission fields on the planet is the American church. I’m convinced that the majority of church members need to get saved! Beyond the obvious bullies, the pews are full of folks who just don’t get it. And we wonder why we don’t see revival and spiritual awakening?! The problem is not the White House, but the Church House. Pastors, be prepared to preach the Cross and the work of Christ with clarity this Easter Sunday … your regular attendees need it as desperately as your visitors.
#5 – They are famous for saying “people are saying.” It took me a little while to learn that most of the time when someone says “people are saying…” what they really mean is “I’ve been saying to people…” I like to diffuse this one by stopping them and saying, “Why don’t you ask the people who are saying things to come to me directly so we can talk about it?” and then asking them what the issues are that they’d like to take ownership of.
Sadly enough it was a former pastor who bullied me out. He def had an inside agenda and spread false accussations, propaganda, and untruths about the doctrine I held (and hold) so near and dear to my heart. The doctrinies of grace. Nearly a decade after I left I reconciled with he and his wife by Gods great grace and for His greater glory but not until the dark and depressive damage was done. At a John Piper Conf I met his grandson who told me that he was reformed but if his grandfather knew he would disown him from the family. I definitely could relate. Acts 14:22. 2 Tim 3:12. 2 Cor. 12:9-12
God is so good. I am being bullied by two younger women in the church (mid-20’s -30’s). I honestly have no idea why they’d be so relentless in bullying a 55-year-old woman, but they seem to take great delight in doing so. The final straw for me was during our last JOY class (the last session for this term) while we were in the sanctuary, I tried to apologize to them because I’d asked them to be quiet during a performer’s song (one of the bullies is married to the singer). They cut their eyes at each other but quieted down. Afterwards, I apologized and explained that I’d never heard the singer sing before. She stated that they didn’t hear me ask them to be quiet, looked at each other and laughed. I was literally shocked that they would tell such a lie in the sanctuary. Rather than being kind to a sister-in-Christ, they denied that anything had happened. Thus, I know that I’ll never be able to figure out their reason(s???) for being so unkind to me. Now, I feel that they are sitting behind me during services and whispering who-knows-what to who-knows-who.
I love this church and the members have been gracious and kind to me. I particularly love my Sunday School teacher, who is the husband of the pastor (who I also adore). But I can’t see that this matter can be resolved if the two women deny that there’s anything wrong (remember, there were many other incidents these ladies have perpetrated towards me). Thus, I’m in the midst of trying to be okay with looking for another church. I don’t want to discuss this with anyone in the church because I realize it has the potential of being divisive and I don’t want to be the cause of any animosity. My biggest hurdle will be trying to explain why I’m leaving to the friend who invited me to the church over 2 years ago. She and I enjoy driving to church together and going on retreats, etc.
I just can’t stop thinking that maybe this is the Lord telling me it’s time to move on. Your article is so timely to my life. Thank you for letting me know I’m not alone (because I really thought I was).
An incredible true story on the subject (and mostly redemption and God’s sovereignty) is The Devil in the Seventh Pew By Rebecca Alonzo.
Some of the meanest folks on the planet go to church. You ain’t been done until you’ve been done by a brother!
Indeed. It always hurts when someone does you wrong, but it hurts all the more when the person claims to be a follower of Christ.
Lying, manipulative, quick to anger alternating with self-pity, into confrontation, lacks empathy, patronizing, self-absorbed, narcissistic, irresponsible, blames others, and a bit paranoid.
Does this describe your bully? If so you may be dealing with someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. Hard to treat as it is not a mood disorder like depression, but an ingrained aspect of the personality.
I know, I saw a marriage destroyed by such a disorder. If your bully has BPD they will rarely admit they have a problem, or that they are the problem. They are masters of twisting reality. They essentially drink their own Kool Aid. If getting a BPD bully to seek therapy is out of the question, get them out the door OR don’t let their nasty negative manipulative BS slide: call them on it! Every time; consistantly.
One of your best, Thom. Unfortunately, entirely true at every point. And more unfortunately, as I read I could put names – and in several cases, a list of names, at every point. I’ll look forward to the next installment.
Unfortunately, the advent of social media has given church bullies a large venue in which to do their dirty work. I take comfort in the fact that they will answer to Someone much bigger than I am.
Greetings, I didn’t get the opportunity to read every one of the blogs written on “church bullies” so if this was mention and I didn’t see it, forgive me. Dr. Rainer I just came across your book “I am a church member” and finished reading it over the 2015 Easter holiday. Your perspective on being a church member and the Body of Christ is so profound that it opened my eyes to why an indiviudal must function in a Christ like manner so that Gods’ work can be seen by unbelievers. I loved it!!!
I do have a question (anyone can answer) and it is that many years ago I read about a husband and wife who were hurt by the church so badly that they began sort of a retreat/counseling haven for those who need healing from the hurt. Do you or any one know what I am talking about? Thanks for the topic “church bullies”. It is truly timely because I didn’t know what emotions I was dealing with among those with power in my local church when something goes awry and I seem to be the culprit.
Bullies give off “vibes” when things don’t go their way. Again, I appreciate you!!!
As stated supply in the last church I served, the church bully raged because other members wanted to make a change. It was a change that needed to be made, fully supported by the denomination. She tried the “people are saying” tactic. When I told her to send those people to me, she went to the “bullying nice people” to increase support. This was not successful, so she moved on to publicly attacking me at the women’s guild meeting. Her 10 minute rant began with “I don’t understand why…” Nobody said a word while she raged. When she finished, I said that I would be happy to explain why, and then did so calmly. The following Sunday I preached about the need to have difficult discussions and explained how to do so. I also told congregants how to recognize bullying behaviors and that if anyone said that if things didn’t go their way they would leave/withhold their tithe, that the response should be “we will pray that you find a good new church home.” She left the church after several members told her that. She goes to another church in town (I apologized sincerely to the receiving pastor who is a friend. The church is now growing in faith and number with their new pastor. I have moved on to a new church where the former pastor was the bully. I am blessed that my congregants actually like each other and appreciate that I am helping them to discover their own gifts for ministry and helping them to use them.
Hi Thomas, That’s a great shot on bullies in the church. As I have experienced they can hold your church hostage if you don’t confront them and remove their power base! I would go as far to say that it can be called the spirit of Jezebel.
As a side note these people are often of lower intelligence and used bulling all their lives to get their way.
Thanks again
Thom,
I just came across this post on your blog. It is very helpful in understanding some recent circumstances at a church I have been associate pastor at for the past almost ten years. It is true that there are pastors and other folk that get hurt in this process but the worst part is that the Name of Christ is hurt.
These things never happen in a vacuum and many eventually figure it out. Christ’s church as a whole suffers when this unGodly situation happens. The church tends to loose its credibility in the community and ceases to be a real transformational church. Attendance tends to go down and the fellowship of the church is characterized by disunity.
Satan eventually comes out as the real victor as the church looses its influence as a light to the community/world. This makes me sad even as I have watched it happen to a church that I have invested almost ten years of ministry into. Not sure what that says about me and my discipling but it is still sad.
For the past five years I have been pastor of a toxic church that is run by just a hand full of bullies. As I have looked at the history of our church this has gone on as for back as 1970, maybe longer. One thing that I have found is that over the years the old bullies hand pick the next bullies to pass the job down to. This May I will be leaving this church, God has removed me and opened new doors.
Count your blessings!
I have seen bullies in action and have been the victim of church bullying myself. Confrontation on this issue is so hard, because you’re right – bullies often just leave when they know they can’t throw their weight around anymore. Even if they were confronted lovingly or from a friend. Rarely is there repentance and reconciliation. Rarely is there true resolution. They move on and become someone else’s problem. It’s so important to bathe this issue (and those people) in prayer, because it requires a complete change of heart and attitude beyond any isolated issue.
In my experience, the most dangerous church bullies are not the loud and boisterous ones. They are those that spread their seeds of dissension through intentional gossip. I don’t mean someone who just gossips a lot, but someone who has an agenda with that gossip. They are rarely called out, because they are quiet and, as some others have mentioned, leave others to do the dirty work while they stir the pot. This is the type of bullying that my husband and I have been subjected to, and it’s especially damaging because of how personal it feels when someone isn’t just bullying but conniving.
Bullies do not deserve prayers. Unfortunately most don’t see anything wrong with their behavior, and instead blame their victims.
This happened in a church I belonged to years ago, when I didn’t realize church bullying was a “thing”. I was the chairperson of the education committee, and the person in question was co-leading, with “weaker” members, the children’s education and youth groups. There was a number of questionable practices and a lot of bullying happening at that time, but I didn’t recognize it as such, I just knew it was wrong. I worked with the pastor and the church board chairperson to mitigate the damage and eventually convince the person to step down and away from the program. They also ended up leaving the church. As I read this article, I realized that it was bullying that was happening. I’ve always felt guilty for my role in this person deciding to leave the church, but now, I realize that they actually were in the wrong. Each one of your points in this article is exactly what was happening. I wish I’d read this sooner! Thanks!
What if the church bully happens to be the Pastor?
Thank you. Unfortunately, some are pastors.
My family actually left our church because of a family of bullies. My oldest son was bullied relentlessly by the son and when we actually stood up to him/them we were made to be the bad guys because they had been there a lot longer than we were. We loved that church and we were hurt by the turning of the backs by those we thought would stand with us to end this abuse. He is a deacon and Sunday school teacher, she is the ‘janitor’ and over a couple of different things in the church. They are in complete and total control of the church and have gone as far as to turn some who have stayed our friends when we left against us. We went back because we missed the preaching and was received with coolness and whispers. The son had left the youth because he graduated but the director still treated my son with indifference. It was heartbreaking to be walked by and not spoken to or ignored. We have yet to find a church home for fear of being abused again. We are not a confrontational family, but I never liked bullying. We just don’t know what to do. We pray that they will see but many are blinded by fear. This family will not leave this church, they have total control.
This is no longer a church but a dictatorship. Not only has this family taken control of this church, but they’ve also given God and Jesus the boot. How sad they use the church and its congregants for their own selfish needs. It’s as if the congregants have been brain-washed; if they truly believed in God, they would have the courage to confront this family of bullies and run them out. My autistic son was bullied by our pastor’s two grandsons, so I left our church as well. We converted to Judaism because Christianity was no longer the answer. Baruch Hashem.
I’m laying here, examining my heart- praying that if this article (and those like it) evoke the anger they do in me, why?
I have grown up in a sbc. I love God. Love people. I desire to live in the center of Christ’s will. I’m a sinner. Imperfect human. As we all are.
I see many things going right in the body of Christ. I see many going wrong. I don’t believe we are focusing on the things that need the most change.
Many of these issues you have addressed in this article would be resolved in very few, but authentic heart changes.
Leadership can not be responsible for others actions. But they can be responsible for their own hearts.
That’s the issue. Hearts. Not going to change a spiritual bully. God can, though.
Making these things so matter of fact So you can list them may get a lot of blog hits and the format might “reach today’s pastoral leadership”, but it isn’t very relevant to the reality I’ve seen in our local churches.
This secret society pastors have formed to help them “minister”, the inner circle, if you will does more damage to the body than any one bully.
I’m not a leader. But I’m a people. One in a flock. Keep in mind most of the people you are trying to reach are not the mover and shakers or the leaders, but everyday people. And everyday people find these type of articles completely irrelevant and out of touch with the reality they live.
On the contrary, this blog is largely directed at pastors and church leaders. Many of us pastors find laypeople to be out of touch with the realities we live day after day. Instead of dismissing these concerns, maybe you should try to see things from the writer’s perspective?
Dr. Rainer,
I served a church for 13 years, was the second longest serving pastor in the history of the church. I never had a problem with anyone until last year. A couple didn’t get their way so the attacked my wife and children and physically attacked me. My deacons stood by and did nothing. As a matter of fact, one of the deacons is now the pastor. I felt I had no option but to move on. I am now serving in another community and this new church has tripled in size but I am still so angry and bitter over this. I need help getting past what happened to my family and it seems I have nowhere to go.
Though it sounds cliche, Kevin, prayer is the only answer to the pain of bitterness. I am joining you in that prayer.
Just a technical correction to the hyperlinks to other articles. They are both broken because there was a missing / after each .com
I thought the articles were awesome and wanted to hear more, but was slightly delayed since these didn’t work. No worries, just wanted to make you aware for future readers!
Great read.
I am an Associate Pastor. My staff and I have been abused for at least 7-8 years by a bully. (It had gotten so bad that our previous pastor banned him from our offices or having conversation with staff). Unfortunately, now his wife is ON STAFF!!! He is the main reason that our senior Pastor finally moved on. We now have a new Senior who has also been abused but insists that this man is one of our sheep and will “come around by our love.” I have spoken to leaders and they refuse to confront this man. I am prepared to leave the church if the behavior continues. Your article is spot on with all of his behavior (and much more). Any suggestions? I grow weary of the constant attacks and rumor-mongering that he promotes. Thank you for your article.
Silence during worship service is essential. Reverence is required for peaceful prayer and meditation. Those who do not regard other’s need for a peaceful experience need to be made mindful of this.
Mary Jane, this comment doesn’t seem to be in response to any other posts here.
Are you suggesting that people should be “made mindful” by bullying or intimidation?
The oldest church in Colorado closed and is up for sale because of bullying that chased everyone away. Once everyone was gone, the bully and his enabling wife, didn’t stick around either—there was no one left to abuse—so they also quit attending and the church doors closed seemingly forever. Over the years, the bully and his wife have routinely moved from one church to another. I have written to them three times over the past several months. While putting them on notice that bullying will not be tolerated, I encouraged them to come to our church (60 miles away) where they have attended off-and-on over the years, appealing to them to let the gospel of Jesus settle into their hearts so they can settle into a healthy church home, but I have received no response and they have not come. My husband does not attend church because of a different bully situation thirty years ago. My daughter does not attend church because of yet another bully incident at yet another church over a decade ago. By God’s grace I am prepared to protect others in the presence of bullies and believe that literally saying “OUCH!” then asking “Did you mean for that remark (or behavior) to be so hurtful?” can be one way to hold a bully accountable and engage a bully on the spot in the presence of the one attacked, to show the abused that we will stand up for them and with them. The fact that I hit “Print” for this article, and 87 pages of comments printed also, reveals what a significant problem this is. Proverbs 6 tells us that sowing discord among the brethren is an abomination to the Lord. Bullies bully at their own peril and the peril of others. We cannot ignore this. Thank you for your articles!
I wonder what these would look like to help a church bully identify herself or himself as such. No one believes themselves to be a bully, no one cackles with glee at the idea that they are causing chaos and destruction (unlike the bad guys in the cartoons of our childhoods). So while it’s important for church leaders and members to be able to identify, name and confront such behaviour in others, is there some way to help the church bullies recognize it in themselves, because frankly only then will they be convicted and open to the Spirit working a change in their hearts and in their behaviours.
My thoughts on this are that the issue of bullying needs to be carefully addressed, but also seen in a wider perspective, and held in tension with other dynamics that are happening. Here in the UK we have different generations with very different cultures and expectations, and believers of all ages with widely differing understandings of what church is, should be, and what really matters. We’re in a historical time of transition in the West from Christendom churches where managing a congregation and reactive task focus was more often the norm than visionary leadership, risk taking and radical discipleship. Believers may then have within that complex scenario very different understandings of the underlying vision of their wider group, the denomination or movement of which their church is part. One may be coming in a passive way identifying with the ‘sheep’ aspect of discipleship , and being ‘part of a flock’, expecting to be pastored and nurtured, and another is dynamically focussed on outward facing mission. Add into that mix the way groups perceive even the smallest shift from the sweet midpoint of the leadership style spectrum toward controlling style in one direction or overly permissive style in the other as being much greater than it actually is (because of the imbalance of power between the leader and the one led) and you have the scene set for everyone pointing the finger at everyone else for both bullying and bystanding, overcontrolling leadership, helpless learned passivity, or undermining and sabotage. I’ve come to feel the single most important feature of a church after focus on Jesus needs to be that it is a safe setting where holiness grows in expressions of genuine trusting relationships and conflict transformation.
I’m glad to see this article online, but am sorry that it even had to be written.
Church bullies find churches to be an easy target because they expect Christians to lay down. Too often, we as Christians do lay down like doormats in the face of a bully’s abuse.
We do this not only due to emotional co-dependency, but also because of a truncated view of Jesus as only meek and mild with all people. Jesus was not meek and mild with everyone. Thus, the combination of co-dependency and a weak view of Jesus renders many clergy and many laity unhealthy to deal effectively with church bullies.
Just how long does one allow a church bully to abuse a church body? It depends!
Does such a church just want to continue to loose healthier members? Does such a church want to see these bullies cause permanent damage to clergy, clergy spouses and or clergy kids which surprise does happen?
How much understanding, meek, and mild, passive love will change these bullies? None!
How much damage to a church’s life and ministry plus reputation in the community and pastors as well as pastor’s families must be sacrificed? A lot!
Is that Christ like? Is this showing Christian love to the victims of bullies? Not at all!
Where’s the love in being quiet, meek and mild? It’s not there!
A true church bully can’t be reasoned with or loved into change for their personalities are abusive. They do not find boundaries to provide feelings of safety, but feelings of having an obstacle put in their way which they are determined to get and maintain.
True church bullies don’t respond to normal conflict resolution techniques for they often have an undiagnosed personality disorder like narcissism or borderline.
Yes, they need to be treated respectfully, but that does not mean being a meek and mild doormat for Jesus. He who was not always meek and mild himself in dealing with people. Church bullies need concrete consequences for their boundary breaking like peace be still or peace leave.
I’ve seen Christians with enough emotional/spiritual maturity who have done this. I’ve seen ones who lacked it who have not done this who wait for someone from the outside to come in and “fix”their toxic church while their compliance is part of the toxic problem.
I’ve also seen some who join by transfer later on become a transfer Trojan horse bully who has done this before.
Unfortunately some church members have been so bullied that they are too afraid. Thus, they chose to remain afraid instead of risking change. That’s their choice. We have to respect where they are and love them for they may decide to change one day and need our support.
The truth is that such a choice not to change is a choice to remain co-dependent with the church bully; to enable their dance of emotional and spiritual blackmail, and to not be a Christ like loving Christian.
One is either enabling the bully by being a passive doormat or one is equipping the health of the church by not being an enabler. It’s that simple.
Hi I am currently going through bullying in my youth group because I am not seen as cool enough for a certain group of people in my youth group and I am afraid to talk to my youth pastor because of the influence these people have and they do not bully me directly to my face but they socially exclude me and they make plans in front of me but they never invite me any where.
Jon –
I am so sorry. I am praying for you right now.
Hi Mr. Rainer. I am frantically looking for help and guidance as I am lost. My family has been shunned away from church and my children lost daycare because of a few people in the administration that believes it would be better for the church. I am devastated. I hesitate to put too much detail on the website, but I would like to communicate the story to you and see if you could point me in the right direction, as I am afraid of what else they can do to defame my family. None of us have ever had criminal convictions, but we are treated as such, the church even asked the police to put a warrant for “criminal trespassing” if my husband, I or the kids would go on their property. My family needs protection from their bullying, but I have no idea where to go and who to contact.
Thank you for your writing and insight. My wife and I are facing a bullying situation which unfortunately is not our first time. Although we read much about honoring the man of God, unfortunately when a new pastor transfers to your small church and the wife of the pastor immediately begins belittling the congregation of the previous church because they were mean and clapped when the pastor left, you can’t help but see flags raised. The pastor was awesome in his messages and his treatment of our members for several months but then things seemed to feel different. Members began coming to my wife and I (I am a member of leadership) and they were showing concerns with changes in attitude, church activities and especially the youth programs as the it seemed they were leaving the youth out of most everything. Eventually my wife and I were put in as Youth Directors and we felt the time had come to implement small changes and get our youth to fellowship more, to serve (first in the church and then grow to serving in the community) but we were told to make no changes until ground rules were set through leadership meetings. My wife was not allowed in these meetings as we do not have female ministers or deacons, so we accepted that. Then we were told what to do, when to do it, how it was to be done, who was allowed to take part. We accepted such direction as new leaders. We were instructed to purchase new and unique shirts for the drama team members only and control them as the choir controls the robes as these were part of a unique and honorable uniform for serving in God’s house. The instructions were followed to a “T” and suddenly I was called into a leadership meeting and told that I was not meant to do everything I was told, now I was being a micromanager, going so far as to control shirts instead of giving them to anyone that requested one. I reminded the pastor of each of his instructions and the dates they were given and these facts were acknowledged by the other members that were present in the various meetings. Sadly, the next 3 out of 4 services were preached to my wife and I as we were unable to lead without using common sense. I was even equated to the pastor when he was a small child on the farm. When he was a young boy on the farm and told to do a chore he knew how to get the job done. Here we have leadership that can’t get anything right and have to be given step-by-step instructions and still get it wrong. He then looked at the asst. pastor and said, do you think they get it now, do ya. They then shared a laugh in front of the congregation during the service. Following these issues and many that I can’t list in this forum my wife and I have offered our resignation to allow someone else to lead the youth that may fit the desires of the pastor since it appeared that now the pastor and asst. felt we hindered the youth program for the past 6 months. Our resignations were denied
The pastor had during this time grown ever closer with another deacon and the next day he put that deacon as co-director over the youth which initially we thought would be great since they were becoming such good friends and maybe this would calm the storm. The same evening that the co-director was put in place he disagreed with my wife over a church matter that he had never dealt with before and he grabbed her arm, throwing her from the classroom and into the hallway while members of the youth were present to witness. She re-entered the room and he tried again but she pulled from his grasp and warned him to keep his hands off of her. She then went to the pastor and reported the incident as did the “co-directors” own wife. The pastor replied that he stayed out of drama and he walked away.
Our cause for resignation was that each of the last 4 or more issues (not all listed) that we have had a disagreement and follow-up pulpit insult and thrashing episode, I have found myself either in the hospital or doctor’s office for heart issues. I have numerous heart issues and a defibrillator and now find myself almost using my nitro prescriptions before they are able to be replaced monthly. I am being warned by the doctors, my family and other leadership to de-stress and allow the youth someone fresh and younger (although I had to promise many I would stay active after stepping down because they love these 50 something folks-thank the Lord). These youth, parents and guardians have supported us all the way and stay as upset as we do when they approach the pastor and are told to leave the church drama outside because he is a pastor and not a drama counselor.
I have truly been blessed by your writings and insight. I now look forward to some of that insight and possible suggestions to help us through this trial as well as your prayers that God’s Will is done in our church and our lives.
Rob
Saw this and have lived this. My family and I finally were released from the job of staving off the attacks of a church bully and his whole family for 30 years with 20 of those years being a deacon. I won some battles against this man, lost some, but one year ago today he removed the full sheep’s skin and went full blown wolf. I often wanted to just leave the church prior to this but God never released me until these last attacks occurred. There were 45 to 50 working church members that left quietly with the spirit moving everybody in the same mind and accordingly, which I found out after all had left then conversed with them. Many wonder why myself and three other deacons did not take care of this man ( who was an elder deacon ), but when we discussed it we knew that there would have been a huge carnal fight with the wolves still staying at THEIR church. It has been a year but the spiritual abuse and attempted spiritual murders by these folks has made me and others distrust all churches to the point that they are all fake to an extent and more harmful than helpful. I know that there are no perfect churches and do want to worship but need prayers for strength and guidance to even want to go on.
Number 9 may be the weakest of all the statements. My experience has been that the ‘bullies’ are most often the most influential of the congregation, have been around for a very long time and as has been noted, people are afraid of them…..
In thinking back over decades of church membership and active participation, I honestly cannot think of a single church (in multiple denominations) that did *not* have at least one bully. In most cases, it was a senior member (or members) who was frequently a charter member of that particular church and whose financial contributions were always given with a caveat. Occasionally, it was a pastor who used threats of shunning or outright expulsion from the congregation.
At some point, I listened to an active bully piously praying over a group luncheon one day and realized that I simply could not continue to pay even lip service to a religion that not only allows this sort of thing to continue, but actively encourages it by church structure (elders, deacons, etc.) and doctrine. The words and actions that are used in today’s churches no longer resemble anything that aligns with those of one Jesus of Nazareth. I walked away and have never looked back.
My worship is done at home, and my charitable works are done in private, through anonymous donations or specific acts. I am not a millennial – in fact, I am on the edge of the boomer generation – but I see why church membership in all denominations is falling; the current generations see nothing but negatives in organized religion (just as I have come to see) and want nothing to do with it. *That* is the price that churches pay when they fail to actively confront bullying – the church, both as individual units and as a whole, will not survive because it has not figured out that the actions of a few affect many…and those many are beating a path to the way out.
Wow. This is a convicting article for me. Am I a church bully? I honestly don’t know. Help me.
What I do know about myself (not defense, just the way I live):
1) I believe in absolutely submitting to the Pastor. If I cannot submit to the Pastor, I need to find a new church.
2) Working within #1, I try to do those things that I am called to do.
3) I believe in controlling what I do, not controlling others. This one is hard because say a church wants to do an event that I pray about and have no calling for whatsoever. Then I don’t participate, other than the participation that is asked of the church at large. For example, if the church is asked to hand out invitations, then I hand out invitations. If the event needs just warm bodies to wash dishes or fold chairs, then I participate at that level. I don’t take on added tasks like heading up some part of it.
If I do feel called to some work, I approach the church leadership. If I get permission, great. If I don’t, I go back to prayer. Very often — too often — I get an answer like, “wow, that’s great. Instead of that though, do this {the opposite of what I am called to do and a truckload of work.}” This is where I’ve learned to say no.
So, my big question, how do you not turn in to a bully by standing up to bullies?
A few years ago we finally left the church we had been attending for twelve years. My husband and I had started a free legal clinic. A year after we started it (with the Pastor’s permission), we approached the trustees to get permission to do a fundraiser so that we could buy a printer, ink, etc.
They blew up. Most of the trustees hardly ever went to church, so they hadn’t seen our multiple announcements and promotions about the legal clinic and thus didn’t know it was going on. Several of them were also lawyers, so they were furious that the church would “give away for free” what they sold.
Instead of fighting, we resigned and left the church, again, after being there for twelve years. We didn’t leave in a showy way — there were friends of ours who didn’t know until three months later — we prayed and we left quietly.
Should we have turned into bullies ourselves?
(CONTINUED)
Or, like your article says, are we bullies because we left?
In every situation I’ve witnessed, it’s the
one with the most power or influence that does the
bullying. Therefore, more often than not, it’s been the
pastor/associate pastor/youth leader, etc….It’s much
easier to get away with bullying if there is a title or
position attached to your name. If a member of a
church is allowed to call all the shots, and they don’t
even have a title or leadership position, then I would
wonder why the leadership would give that much
power to an individual. simply because they had
the loudest voice or made the biggest donations.
Any pastor that would allow a member of his church
to manipulate other members or try to make the
rules or call all the shots would be a weak leader.
I’ve seen pastors in more than one occasion embarrass,
shame and humiliate members from the pulpit during
crowded church services, and when respectfully
confronted, made it look like THEY are the victims
and are being picked on by the actual victims. I’ve seen
churches where the board was made up by close friends
of the pastor, all “yes” men, and one church has NO
board so is not accountable to anyone for his actions.
I’ve also seen, in the church I attended the longest, over
20 years, people with great potential driven out by the
insecure pastor who felt threatened by their presence.
One of them was the children’s pastor, and doing an
excellent job, along with his wife; together they had built
a successful ministry and the children loved them…..after
all of that the ministry was transferred to a young man
with no experience who ended up leaving after less than
a year. The older man that started the ministry was
taken from his position and made the janitors aide….all
because he and his wife were getting older! They
were in their late 50’s and were more like youthful
grandparents to those kids. One more thing, the pastor
is at least as old as they are….I wonder when he will be
“too old” for his role as pastor. No one I’ve ever talked
to felt like what they did to that couple was from
God…..and most of them are people with discernment,
many of whom still attend that church and respect
the leadership. Of course, that’s only one example
of many. Years ago the worship leader was also driven
out though he was a kind man with a good family
and had a passion for worship. Things were insinuated
from the pulpit that anyone with discernment knew
wasn’t true and it was all to cast a bad light on this man.
To this day, many years later, he and his family have
moved away but they are still together and happily
married. It seemed that if anyone stood out for any
reason they were sabotaged and even if not directly asked
to leave, they were treated so badly they felt they had to.
That is classic church bullying!
After being in church planting since 2005 my family and I can attest to the bullies in ministry. However, after reading many of these replys it seems that any church leader could be viewed as a bully. Recently while training a volunteer how to use Power Point, I discovered the system was set up wrong. I took a minute to fix the setup and explained to the volunteer about the system and the benefits of having the system setup properly would help the operation on Sundays go smoother. I spent a great deal of time teaching the program to someone who couldnt read. 2 weeks later the pastor called me in and told me I had acted like a bully with the volunteer. I was taken aback by his response and his use of the word ‘bully’. Many of the replys I see here use the word, bully, because someone is in leadership. To quote a scene from the Princeess Bride, Inigo Montoya replies “You keep using that word, I don’t think it means what you think it means.
Please pray for me. I feel I am passivly bullied. Even my pastor is distant with me. Im new to this Communion Ministry. It hurts cause this ministry reoresents Christ.
I ended up leaving a church I where I was the pastor because of a bully. The church board forbade me to ask the man to leave. The bullying became so bad that I started having anxiety attacks before services because I knew what was coming after the service. After moving, I was able to stop taking blood pressure medications.
I could have written your article, it is so accurate, and indeed, have, in emails and in conversations with congregation officers and even colleagues to whom I turned for help. Help is not forthcoming. He is very very good at manipulating. I saw early on what he was doing–gathering weak people around him, intimidating me by walking into my office threatening to fire me–he hasn’t the authority, but I’m a single mother of 2 disabled daughters so its unnerving–then more: “You make too much money. Prove that you work all day. You need a pay cut, etc., etc., I wouldn’t budge. Eye rolling and huge sighs when I was speaking at council meetings. Yelling at me in public. Stopping all ministries to the point that I literally had nothing to do. Petty things like closing the window behind my chair in church after I had opened it and hiding the handle so I could not open it again. Lying lying lying. The problem is, he then talks about how much I have hurt him and since I fight back, and the women on the council do not support women in ministry (I’m a woman by the way), they say “awwww” when he makes insane claims. He has the men in the church cowed and terrified. I sincerely believe the women are simply seduced. Yet, I keep fighting because I am called to defend this church that he is destroying. Yes, we dare to declare the presence of the demonic–even we who are not evangelic must do so. My career will likely not survive this but my soul will and I will have served God as I am called to do. Anyone who thinks this is not the work of evil is naïve.
I think we need to be aware, as leaders, that #3 can influence #5. They can rally up a team of weakers, who then get the ear of another member who has influence & manipulate them into being a mouthpiece. I’ve seen it in the corporate world and in the ministry environment.
So, not all people who have executed a #5 are bullies. We should be taking into account, is #5 part of their M.O. or is this the first/only time this has ever happened. Then, we can ask the right questions to get to the bottom of it.
I also think we should do a better job of training our leaders to recognize these things. In the corporate world there is “on the job training” and then “leadership enrichment” training throughout your career. In ministry, I see far less of that. Most leaders are volunteers who are thrown into the fray with no training or support. Even when the Pastors/Staff go off for a leadership conference, how often do they bring that opportunity to other leaders in the church?
If we were training our leaders better, they could spot these types of people better. They would know how to handle the situation better. Then #7 would become less of an issue.
This was a fascinating read for me, as I just left my small church where a close family member was the ‘bully’. So I am going through double broken-heartedness right now. He is the worship leader, and I was asked to lead on the days he had to workand arrive late. I was blessed and honored to do this, since I had not led worship in a few years, being of the previous generation. I learned new worship songs and poured my heart into leading, singing and playing acoustic guitar, with beautiful songs such 10,000 Reasons, Oceans, etc. My heart was to draw everyone into a deep time worshiping our God. Well, I did this 4 different weeks. The congregation loved it for the beauty, freshness, and depth. But after each service I literally got blasted for something by the ‘bully’. The songs weren’t right, the key wasn’t right, my voice wasn’t right, my guitar playing wasn’t right, my sound system wasn’t right. Or my motives weren’t right. Just about everything was wrong. Except he was the only one who thought so. The first time I was taken aback and hurt, but tried my best to adjust. Each time the reprimands became more severe and hostile, until finally I felt crushed and unable to lead anymore.
Because this person is part of my immediate family, amd I was unable to talk to him without more bullying going on, I had to leave. I still feel crushed and confused. Trusting Jesus every day to helo me through this. 🙁
Sometimes they stay at their church to further work their magic
You missed Pastors and secretaries on your list of likely bullies. It only takes a Pastor using a couple of lies to force anyone out. Then it’s your word against theirs and you are screwed.
I often feel disappointed by many of those articles on Church bullies. They often very narrowly define who those church bullies are.
Bullies are almost cartoon villain like, they are always the bad guys who does not seem to walk close to the Lord, or may not be real born again believers. Church bullies are always painted in a very two dimensional way.
While I suspect it does applies to some church bullies, many church bullies are more complicated than that.
I knew this woman once, she clearly was a born again believers who experienced an amazingly deep of God’s grace.
She does have a loving side
But she is also a real bully
She has a real force of personality, and like any bullies, she knew how to pick her target
She has a son who is a real bully, who constantly uses his position to settle personal scores with others.
whose idea of repentance is ” If Holy Spirit convicted me, and I feel kind of bad” than that is it. From what see, there is no change to his behaviors
maybe because this is the kind of repentance mummy endorses ( for her son only, anyone else will be destroyed if they pull this kind thing on her and her family)
When she talks about love and forgiveness and understanding, she really is talking about her son or people that remind her of her sons.
If situation is reversed, she conveniently apply a different standard if she could get away with it, and is not afraid to use extreme bully tactics to enforce it.
She has been this way for a long time, while I have not seen her in a while, knowing her history, the likelihood of her changing is very small.
but then again, God appears to have blessed her greatly in her ministry, which is like having salt rubbed into your wound.
it is bad enough that you see Christians who colluded with her to allow her hurting people
but when you do not see God’s justice, it just plain hurts.
I do think God is righteous, but I have no idea what is going on here.
What a great read! I’ve heard it called “church politics” before, too. I’ve experienced this first hand. The problem got so bad that even the pastor would allow it to happen. Not because it was right or wrong but the church was experiencing a season of low attendance. The “bully” was an entire family who had been attending the church for generations. Losing them would empty two rows of pews (and two church leaders). So the pastor appeased them and turned a blind eye. He would tailor the church to their suggestions, even if it was at the cost of casting new people away.
I have suffered from church bullying. In a particularly upsetting case there was an individual who during a 15 year period spent time and bonded with two elderly lay leaders who were mentally frail and encouraged them to heckle and insult me as I would speak to the group. It was humiliating. It got worse during the holidays when there were more visitors than usual. Not surprisingly few of those visitors stayed . I stayed at the position for over a year because I was an employee. Other church members told me they were sorry for this individual’s behavior. The individual who gave me this trouble told me that they had been there for 15 years and knew how things worked here and that they were more knowledgeable than I was about how to do my job. The entire staff and I resigned from this church. This church was a flourishing church in the 20th century but is now 15% of its size in 1965.
–
I have written this note as an attempt to find catharthis through reflection on this painful experience. I have just begun a new, better paying position with another church. At this time I will try to prevent bullying by building bridges with the people I look forward to serving.
I was searching for help in how to deal with church bullies and came across your article. You are correct the is an epidemic if church bullying going on. I have experienced it an epidemic amongst older church women. They seem to attend church to mock and scoff. The church kitchen is a hotbed of mockery. You have church women mocking other church womens new haircuts, clothes, shoes. If your hair is not cut in a style they deem appropriate they mock you or very boldly patronise you. I find the ministers do nothing. Even having a baby is turned into an excuse for bullying. Your bump is too big, you’ve put on too much baby weight. That maternity dress makes your bump stick out more. Was your baby planned or was it a mistake ? Oh how I hate attending church vile bullies can be little old dearie.
What do you do when a paid staff member is the bully and the pastors choose to do nothing about it and SPR knows and does nothing about it because the pastors do nothing about it? I have come to the decision that it is time for me to leave my position on staff and move on. I and other staff members who have since let have tried for years to confront this bully but with no support, it amounts to hitting your head against a brick wall. Any thoughts?
we are all capable of being a bully at one time or another. I think one common bullying behaviors we are all guilty at one time or another ( God has dealt with me severely in this area) is gossip and slander
i think often people who resort to slander and gossip are projecting some of their past experience onto others.
another thing is in order for gossip and slander to succeed, there have to be plenty of willing ears, and there are always plenty of willing ears and willing mouth for that matter, to pass gossip and slander on, and thus the “fun” begins.
i have been driven out a church once because of gossip and slander among Christians there
i think often bullying involves power differences between the perpetrators and victims
position power is one of those power difference
but more often than not, it is the social power that really make a difference in church environment
if you are someone who is socially awkward and find it hard to make friends, that makes you an easy target, and people who has social power can bully you through gossip and slander, before you know it, it is like having a pack wolves attacking you all at once.
i think this is why standing up for yourself is not always applicable if you are the loner in Church
by the way, Thom, have you already written an article to help people who suffered from church bullying on how to move on based on scriptural truth?
i think if you haven’t done that, i am sure it would be helpful for many for have an article that helps them to gain a deeper understanding on that matter
when i read Jenny ‘ post, i can understand how she feels, she and her child are classic target for bullying, but what do you do in the aftermath? how do handle it when God doesn’t appear to intervene, and you ended up having to pick up all the pieces all by yourself, while those who tortured you got the look of victory on their face, and just keep on doing what they do?
I am in a difficult situation where I attend a church prayer meeting once a week. I am deliberately excluded while others are asked to pray. I am trying to just accept the situation but it upsets me. The difficulty is I am forced to go there by my husband. It started when a woman complained because I prayed across her which I admit was wrong. However the exclusion has continued over a year despite me apologizing for being out of order. The woman who complained about me my husband and we have given her lifts, given her $500 to help her, we have paid for lunches and dinners etc I don’t want to make a fuss because I don’t want to be a Jezebel. What should I be doing?
We have a few ‘bullies’ in my church as well. They are three women. They grew up in this church. They are convinced it is “their” church. Pastors over the years have done nothing to confront it. Other members do nothing because they too have been members for a long time. These ladies are very, very slick. They will put up this ‘holy’ face in front of the pastor, but the second the back is turned out come the degrading, sarcastic, back-slapped put downs, and remarks to people. So, the problem continues. People have left because of this. People have not returned because of this. If I (as a newer member, about ten years) try to tackle this…..and I have gently asked other members “what can we do” I am told:
*Oh, don’t worry about it. Just give it to Jesus because He is in control
*Just pray for them.
*They are hurting, and hurting people ‘hurt others’ Jesus told us to not worry about it. You should just pray for them
*Before you confront, maybe you should make sure you ‘remove the plank from your eye’ because we’re all broken here and not perfect, and you can’t judge! The Bible says so!
*God is gonna make it right, and you bringing this up could be considered gossip! Be careful, we’re a loving church and gossip isn’t allowed!!!
All these responses boil down to one thing. FEAR. I am ready to just “leave” and find another church.
Directly confront them if you are forced to leave the church and publicly rebuke/shame them if you have to. They have a Jezebel personality and spirit. Fast and pray before you do so.
Good article. I faced racial bullying from two churches. In both cases, subtle attacks were directly made upon my race (being mixed race). Both the churches were “born again”. It caused me great distress. The pastors in both cases were silent and refused to intervene. There were “gangs-cliques” of bullies in both churches. The attacks were a combination of both spiritual and personal. I thought that moving to the next church, it would stop. It didn’t. Finally I stopped going to church. Strangely it was a Catholic Priest who comforted and helped me in the difficult times, despite me being a protestant. I feel at times, it is best to get the courts involved if something goes serious like this. While some may quote a pauline scripture about not involving authorites in church disputes, but those were roman authorities. Most of our laws now are shaped by Judaeo-Christain traditions and Romans 13:4 is clear, authorities are put to punish evil doers. I feel when things get out of hand, matters should be taken to court. Otherwise, it is best to stop church entirely and worship with family in house groups.
This article neglects to address when the bullies are within leadership (either ministry leaders, elders, Pastors, etc). How do members of the body (or lower level leaders) address this within their church?
Lower level leaders just leave. This has happened in our Church. Unfortunately I was the first whistleblower. Those from the diocese protected the clergy. Since then a lot of people have left due to similar issues.
The bully started on someone else which I believe I stopped on speaking out again. However more bullying has gone down recently within the community which is a great shame. The diocese seem to be blind to all the complaints.
Those in the congregation who have witnessed incidents again turn a blind eye.
If you do speak out, life is awful. It has taken a year so far of meltdowns, depression and I am still being told I have hurt so many people and I am the problem.
Speaking out against bullying in a Church should be safe, but I think you just have to jump ship unless you can endure the ill health which comes with the fight.
My name is Buddy and I teach Bible at our church once a month because of License requirements. I graduated from Bible college with a 2.5 g.p.a. , attended the Georgia School of Ministry and achieved a 3.5 gpa and am now enrolled in a Masters in Biblical Studies program. For many months my pastor has been using the following phrases: “get up off of your do nothings” and “I have come close to quitting this church many times” and the most hurtful was “I don’t want to pastor a seniors center or some variation of this.” After many weeks of prayer my wife and I approached him and talked to him about these phrases. I thought the meeting went well until the following Sunday. We had a leadership meeting and he started out with a book called Autopsy of a Dead Church. I had all I could take and disagreed with him and said that our church was far from dead. A Board member shut me down and said that I didn’t understand what he was saying. Other leaders were upset with him also but didn’t say anything.
a few days later I talked with the board member about him calling me down. He said, “Your mind has been muddled by Satan and you don’t understand.”
After several years of giving sound biblical teaching I am now muddle brained because I challenged the pastor. I fear my church is bleeding members because of poor leadership. What can be done?
What if the bully is your Pastor?
What if the bully is your pastor’s wife? I had to finally leave the church I loved just to get away from her.
That’s exactly what happened to me.
I attend a church of England in central London. I am deputy organist there. Three years ago I was shocked when the parish Administer just turned and shouted at me for asking for Sundays music list. It happened several more times and me being a gay man she must have thought she was now entitled to continue this. Ignoring her was the best policy but in the end, I warned her off and said I will take this further but before I even got home, I was reading emails from the female vicar saying I had been nasty to the administrator. I was never allowed to meet to defend myself and even if meetings were organised, last-minute cancellation came through and another delay until each case got swept under the carpet.
Three weeks ago my day job involves freelancing as organist mostly in funerals in other churches and crematoriums, I called into the church to get some music for specific music but the glass doors were locked. The administrator cam to unlock it but out of sight of security cameras, she dragged me around, in areas not covered by camera but got away from her. The anger in her face showed such hatred, it terrified me. I am disabled and suffer emphysema, osteoporosis and in remission from cancer with other chronic conditions. I managed to get near the exit but she trapped me into an alcove. It was a hot day and she was wearing a floral blouse, she said “touch me and I will scream the place down”, then she took her left hand to her right shoulder and just as she was about to rip it, a young lad appeared and with her back turned to him, he could not see what crime she was about to do and turned her head to face him and told him to go to the office and write a report of me being nasty to her.
I saw her chance to get out and bellowed out loudly to get her to back off more, I screamed “GET OUT OF MY F—–G WAY YOU PSYCHO” and safely got to my car. By the time I got home, the emails were in my inbox from the vicar with several copied in. She is (the vicar) aware of what happened, defending the administrator all the way. In my last email, there was a big list copied in of names not belonging to the church.
My partner and I (my partner is non-church going) were asked to meet the vicar yesterday and said to meet in the church, a venue where this occurred and the administrator was there at work. I asked her to be considerate and change the venue to our home or hers, then she claims she was too frightened of us. (WHAT????????) Church only or nothing. My p\rtner called her 10 minutes before the meeting spoke to her but would not budge, my partner said, “no I will not allow him through the doors of the church in his present state and is yet to give a full report to the police.
With how they were dealing with this and demanding us only to meet there, we both feared a setup. My partner called her as mentioned and told her the meeting is not going to happend there, wished a nice day. I got a text from the vicar and hour later, saying “I have not heard from you both, I am leaving ow to attend other things.. Now she can say we did not bother to turn up, but our phone rcords will show a voice call was made to prove her a liar in such a nasty situation yet again by the woman. What their game? Homophobia? Strange that when she came there was several LGBT people attending and getting very involved. Not long after the ordination, there was a sudden exodus of many including LGBT. When I see them, I hear the word toxic place from them and the administrator’s name comes up in most I have bumped into. I could be on remand now awaiting court and probably thrown into prison ruining my life and our home and she gets away with it. I am unable to enter a church in my life again because of th8is severe potential crime and I have been giving my all in its church life and can’t for the life of me think what did I ever do to this administrator to ever deserve this.
My faith is unaltered. God sees.
However I am broken, have not slept much since, not working and fear my personality and my character will be affected forever and how do I clear my name when there is a big wall of people surrounding her? Probably now saying in the area that I abuse women. Sexually I have never laid with a woman and never will. What an insult. Totally broken here. If my grammar and spelling are bad, forgive me, this is what no sleep and stress does.
As a person who has experienced forced religous conversion, I am interested in this. Bullies exist in all areas. It’s a shame when they are tolerated and the issues they present are not addressed in sermons. They may not listen, they may switch churches, but should they be held onto in the first place? In terms of personal happiness and mental wellness, despite having more problems before the conversion attacks, I was happier before this agenda took my personal choice away. And I imagine the same is true for those who actually want to be in church beside other believers.
Our minister is a bully to two congregants who contribute, musically, to the life of the church. My friend and I are songs leaders. We make a joyful noise by encouraging and singing with the congregation. We have developed a loving musical relationship with the congregation, much to the minister’s disapproval. They do not respond to her as they respond to us. In front of the congregation she is polite to us. We are not fooled by her niceties, so we direct our positivity towards the congregation, because they deserve our attention. We are scheduled to sing once a month and even at that, we have to be prepared for her sense of entitlement to make an appearance. She called me at home to pay us a compliment, only to take it back by cancelling us out of our next sing-song. That meant we did not get to sing with the congregation for two whole months. The list goes on and on. United, we stand, but the atmosphere she creates at church is toxic to us. Our church board has no spine and chooses to wear blinders when it comes to dealing with problems.