Podcast Episode #086
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In this first podcast episode of 2015, we expound on what discourages those in ministry. Like criticism, overcoming discouragement is a two-pronged approach. Ministers need to know how to handle it, and members need to realize how their actions can cause it.
Some highlights from this week’s episode include:
- An active church member 15 years ago attended church three times a week. Now it’s three times a month.
- Church membership classes can help decrease the discouragement for staff by giving members expectations and information up front.
- Pastors or staff members can run themselves ragged trying to meet personal demands placed on them from church members.
- Many ministers lack business and administrative training but are expected to know how to run what amounts to a small business.
- You have no right to attack the family of a staff person because of dissatisfaction with the minister.
- Every church staff will have conflict and differences. It is normal. The key is how you resolve that conflict.
The ten issues we covered were:
- Conflicts/complaining/murmuring.
- Lack of fruit and spiritual maturity in church members.
- Apathy.
- Church members who leave the church for seemingly silly or no reasons.
- Expectations by members/lack of time.
- Performing tasks where the pastor/staff does not have competencies.
- Meetings/committees.
- Family concerns.
- Staff issues.
- Lack of volunteers.
Episode Sponsor
The Cross Church School of Ministry is a one-year residential ministry experience hosted by Cross Church and Dr. Ronnie Floyd. It uniquely designed to prepare leaders for life, ministry, and Gospel advancement globally. For more information about the Cross Church School of Ministry visit: www.CrossChurchSchool.com.
Feedback
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I can’t imagine that the majority of pastors feel this way, but filtered through the content on this blog, I would get the impression that the average pastor if given the opportunity to be perfectly honest would admit that they think that their fellow members of the body are nothing but scum.
There is such a low representation of the body that I see given here, that I wonder if it doesn’t just follow that we have apathetic and dwindling congregations within this country.
Seems like the model congregant according to this site is one who will sit down, shut up, open their wallet, and do what you are told when you are told. Whew, sign me up for that.
We create division in the body, and then wonder why our severed limbs don’t work anymore.
Dallas,
Respectfully, I completely disagree. Through my studies for Family Life Ministry and my friendships with many different pastors and church workers, I have found that many church workers (especially pastors) do feel this way–discouraged and disheartened–but that they would never say that fellow members of the Body are scum. Rather, I have found that the overall trend among congregation members is a low view of the Office of the Ministry and a tendency to criticize the pastor (and often other church staff) not out of love, but out of pride, desire for power, or other such reasons. (This is not to say that a pastor or church worker that is living or working in an unbiblical manner should not be disciplined. However, if the pastor or church worker is not sinning or behaving wrongly, church members should be supportive of the staff..)
I would say, and I’m sure most pastors and church workers would agree with me, that the ideal church member attends regularly (out of a desire to receive the forgiveness found in the Word and Sacraments), supports the church staff insofar as the staff is living within the biblical standards for ministry, and contributes to the life of the congregation, whether that is through financial support, volunteering, or some other method.
Congregations cannot survive without active members that support their staff and without staff that upholds biblical values, teaches the Law and Gospel, and provides for the needs of their members. Church workers certainly need to support their members, but the support needs to be reciprocated.
Posts like this are intended not for general laypeople, but for pastors and other church leaders that are facing discouragement in the ministry. I am grateful that Dr. Rainer and others provide this website with resources for lay members on how to support their church staff, especially pastors, and for pastors and other church workers to face discouragement and other struggles of ministry.
We certainly need, as the Body of Christ, to be more unified, but pastors and other ministry workers also need support when they are facing a divisive or critical situation in their work, and this is a great place for them (us) to come when feeling disheartened–not out of a desire to bash our fellow members of the Body, but out of a desire for prayer, support, and a listening ear during a difficult time.
I hope this clarifies some things about this and similar posts for you.
God’s blessings,
Dakotah
Dakotah, as I mentioned off the bat, I don’t believe that the average pastor thinks that others in the congregation are scum, but the way that the body is portrayed on this site on a regular basis would lead me to think that they do.
I have only been reading here regularly for a couple months, but I was introduced to this blog through an article that referred to them as Cave Dwellers, and it is pretty common to have them referred to as complainers and cowards among other things.
The man whose name appears on this blog has influence over pastors who are influential themselves in building the culture within our local congregations. The adversarial leanings of many of these posts don’t fill me with hope about how they are being applied “on the ground”.
You “can’t imagine that the majority of pastors feel this way” because you have never been one, correct? I have to admit that it’s kind of nonsensical to have such a strong opinion if you’ve never experienced being a pastor. The Bible says that Christians should rebuke an elder in sin (1 Tim 5:19-20), but that’s really it. Christians have no biblical authority or basis for harshly criticizing or rebelling against their leaders. Non stop criticism, apathy, or rebellion would discourage anyone. Pastors tend to get discouraged because, on the one hand, they’re are expected to lead (which involves making decisions that affect everyone), but on the other hand, they’re open to every form or judgment and criticism. The pastorate is the only position in the world that’s vested with authority, yet has to use that authority very wisely and carefully. A lot of times, church members flat out disregard the delegated authority that pastors/elder have (1 Tim 5:17; Heb 13:17). Therefore, church members/”attenders,” advertently or inadvertently, cause the leadership to become discouraged over one or more of the issues Thom listed. If you were a pastor, and you lacked volunteers or had to manage several “committees” or saw people leave the church for seemingly silly or no reasons, you’d be deeply discouraged too. And because you’re human, you would struggle figuring out how to keep things going. You’d become a little discouraged somewhere along the way. Trust me.
… and this is the kind of you’re not a pastor, shut your mouth attitude that I have come to expect on here.
Keep those claws sharp my lupine friend.
As I’ve told you before, it’s very easy to tell other people how to do their job when you’ve never actually had to do it.
“The pastorate is the only position in the world that’s vested with authority, yet has to use that authority very wisely and carefully.”
I disagree. There Are lots of positions with power where it has to be used wisely. Any US senator can stop any bill or nomination without providing a reason. Yet to do so unwisely is asking for trouble. This is one of many examples I could offer.
Pastors have been fired for doing a lot less than U.S. Senators do routinely. I’m not saying that’s always a bad thing, since I expect pastors to have a higher degree of integrity than politicians.
Dallas, the majority of members are wonderful. The minority are very vocal and very discouraging. Pastors are to care for all, including the difficult ones, and that’s why it is so painful to hear negativity. We take it very personally by the nature of the job.
I am a member and not a pastor, although i am a minister. God has just begun a home church in my home with one member besides my wife. This is a blessing and something that is coming to fruition in the Lord’s time. This topic is not a divisive one, nor is the site. If we ask for and have compassion for the unsaved, as well as the body, we shouldn’t be justifying our positions (usually fleshly), we should pray for and reach out to them in support. The body needs to be ministered to in many ways, and so does the leadership. These days are hard and evil, and the work God has given the laity and the pastors to do can be tiresome, without thanks, and discouraging. I believe that’s all that is being conveyed here. Please be sympathetic. No one is “blaming” you.
I suggest that pastors publicly of by email to the congregation ask for help.
This is next to unheard of in most churches. You never know who would be willing to help you with a host issues. Now, don’t get upset when someone offers to help whom you don’t like.
I don’t think pastors think their congregants are scum.
However, there is a pecking order in churches and most organizations. Those at the bottom are the ones who feel like they are being run out of Christianity. I am not going to go down the list because every church has its own.
In order to see all the brighter tomorrows for which they have the potential, churches–like other social systems God created–must address four main problems daily (we stand in small circles during recesses at pastors’ conferences and talk about this without knowing we do); they are: integration, motivation, adaptation, and goal achievement. These seem to be the four irreducible growth-related needs of all social systems including Christian churches; if that is true but we ignore them, we probably will remain discouraged–but not understand why (which is more discouraging).
Discouragements can dog any leader or Christian servant, no matter his or her temperament type. For lead pastors who are experiencing this, I highly recommend J R Briggs’ new book, FAIL. And in 2014, in Serve Strong: Biblical Encouragement To Sustain God’s Servants, I explain and illustrate Bible truths that have sustained me for over 4 decades of vocational ministry. James I. Packer calls Serve Strong, “A potent antibiotic for the Christian worker’s struggling soul.”
I am also learning to “preach to myself” truths and verses we all know, but sometimes don’t meditate on when we need them, most: Isa. 41:10; Heb 6:10; i Cor. 15:58; Heb 4:12, etc. Memorizing verses are not quick fixes, but provides fuel for the Holy Spirit whenever my feelings cause me to lose Biblical perspective. Keep serving strong!