NEW RELATED POST: Should Your Church Stop Having a Stand and Greet Time?
If you attend a church regularly, you’ve probably noticed the phenomenon. A guest shows up for a worship service, but he or she never returns. It is, unfortunately, a common issue in many churches.
I did a Twitter poll to ask these first-time guests why they chose not to return to a particular church. While some of the responses were anticipated, I admit being a bit surprised with some of them.
Though my poll is not scientific, it is nevertheless fascinating. Here are the top ten responses in order of frequency.
- Having a stand up and greet one another time in the worship service. This response was my greatest surprise for two reasons. First, I was surprised how much guests are really uncomfortable during this time. Second, I was really surprised that it was the most frequent response.
- Unfriendly church members. This response was anticipated. But the surprise was the number of respondents who included non-genuine friendliness in their answers. In other words, the guests perceived some of the church members were faking it.
- Unsafe and unclean children’s area. This response generated the greatest emotional reactions. If your church does not give a high priority to children, don’t expect young families to attend.
- No place to get information. If your church does not have a clear and obvious place to get information, you probably have lowered the chances of a return visit by half. There should also be someone to greet and assist guests at that information center as well.
- Bad church website. Most of the church guests went to the church website before they attended a worship service. Even if they attended the service after visiting a bad website, they attended with a prejudicial perspective. The two indispensable items guests want on a website are address and times of service. It’s just that basic.
- Poor signage. If you have been attending a church for a few weeks, you forget all about the signage. You don’t need it any more. But guests do. And they are frustrated when it’s not there.
- Insider church language. Most of the respondents were not referring to theological language as much as language that only the members know. My favorite example was: “The WMU will meet in the CLC in the room where the GAs usually meet.”
- Boring or bad service. My surprise was not the presence of this item. The surprise was that it was not ranked higher.
- Members telling guests that they were in their seat or pew. Yes, this obviously still takes place in some churches.
- Dirty facilities. Some of the comments: “Didn’t look like it had been cleaned in a week.” “No trash cans anywhere.” Restrooms were worse than a bad truck stop.” “Pews had more stains than a Tide commercial.”
There you have it. The top ten reasons first-time guests said they did not return to a church. I can’t wait to hear from you readers. You always have such good additions and insights.
No clearly marked visitor parking was another we’ve experienced.
Thanks Thom.
Great add. Thanks, Mike.
Unfortunately, being rejected over an avatar is sad, since I cannot change it because the account has been deleted leaving me no way to control what pops up in the photograph. I understand why you wouldn’t allow it, but my message is clear. Church is not about YOU. It is about the body (the Bride). Dan is a radical and clearly has forgotten the GOLDEN RULE.
Glen Johnson, who is Dan and why do you call him a radical? Are you implying a visitor rejected your church because of the red faced horned avatar in your comment? If so I certainly wouldn’t blame the visitor. The avatar is repulsive and intimidating. You stating you have no control over it is reckless and confirms the absurdity of your comment. Veronica Doniel
Personally, I think all of them are okay but that is not my top 10. I am realistic
1. Money Pastor, Does not feed his sheep.
2. Money Church no accountability.
3. Loud Music and to long
4..Too much marketing 101
5. Trying to fit everyone’s needs.
6. Clicks
7. Teaches well but more of a free spirit do as you want just love..
Just off my head
u forgot ppl asking how u are doing then walking away before u get to answer most ppl care about who can give money and who cant we poor ppl feel like we shouldn’t be allowed to enter a church cause we cant give all our money goes to our bills, so when they ask for offering we run to the bathroom so we don’t have to give, I feel bad for poor homeless ppl who cant give at all and don’t feel welcome ppl are in this world for themselves not God
I get up what some people would call poor. I wore dresses made from the sacks that the feed for our animals came in plus other things. BUT my parents always gave at least a 10th of EVERYTHING to church, pastor or needy. We gave of our money, vegetables, live stock and everything else. That is what the Bible teaches. So to you I would challenge: give at least 10% to church and I guarantee you the other 90% will cover your needs. That again is what the Bible promises. I promise it works. I would not give anything for my childhood. Loved every moment and as a older person my life style is becoming like it. Sincerely.
Please accept my challenge. You will be a better person (Blessed)
Lying about healings. no, REALLY. I’m an asthmatic and I once went to the front and pastor not knowing anything whatsoever about the disease prayed (violently almost shoving me) and then said BREATH NOW… and i breathed normally as I did when I stood up. And the whole church stood in awe when I breathed normally (actually asthma comes in attacks). Then there’s the lack of evidence for real healings. And why don’t they simply take a day and REASON with each other as to why healings don’t take place. I am aware of certain healings within myself when I screamed at God for help and probably got it. But hapless people bring severely retarded children and Rheumatoid Arth and cancers? Rather say our faith lack entirely.
Loud Music is my No1 turn off
Long and boring sermons, exacerbated by wooden pews
Public prayers from another subculture
Jacobean English
Odd rituals
The BRIDE? Sorry for taking offence… Not really … Fake sorry. Church is not about us. It’s about Him.
The BRIDE refers to the bride of Christ, in other words, us! The church, which is referred to as “the bride of Christ”, so you see, church is indeed all about us and is indeed all about the Bride and is indeed also all about God, as the Church is His Bride.
The unfriendly is onemy top reasons, and ignorance of what’s taught, from the members.
I once visit a church and had active respiratory infection on top of being asthmatic and went into and asthma attack while trying to sing and the members started praying for me to be delivered from demon. I was sick not demon possessed, another church I visit thought I was a sinner in need of salvation because I had pants on. I hate visiting churches
The church IS the Bride of Christ.
Just create a new account. Simple.
Thom – we have a meet and greet. We also have a tear out that we ask visitors to let us know about them. Those that turn them in get a letter from our pastor thanking them for coming and then asking for comments. NEVER has the meet and greet been a negative – they say that the people were friendly and appreciated it.
To me, a meet and greet feels like a cult introduction. Just my opinion.
I agree. While some visitors are looking for acceptance or a place they feel they can connect to, many others are curious or coming from a non-religious or anti-religious background, or even from a different denomination with potentially very different worship “styles”. For those many who show up at the door with a degree of skepticism or confusion or cautious optimism, the meet and greet or the sign of peace or whatever your denomination may call it, it’s all the same – a personal, psycho-contrived exercise that is not only too MUCH, but too SOON. There’s nothing wrong with asking visitors to say hello IF THEY WANT TO, but you should also encourage visitors to remain anonymous if they wish to. Churches can offer coffee time if the purpose of the group is to encounter EACH OTHER. The purpose of worship time is to encounter CHRIST, and those who are well-churched should understand without having to have it explained: a new visitor is quite possibly someone who is struggling with sin and forgiveness and redemption, and looking for answers – that person needs to be given room to breathe and come forward in THEIR own time and as they are comfortable. When the throngs pressed in on Jesus, people came forward begging to touch his garment. In other words, the people who needed to encounter him took that initiative; the apostles didn’t go out and say “raise your hand if this is the first time you’ve seen us.” Harry is absolutely right – in most churches I’ve been to, the Meet and greet or the passing the peace or whatever, always feels like a cult. Even when it isn’t that intense, it feels like a celebration of the community that I don’t necessarily feel I belong to (yet).
My issue with the “fellowship time” portion of the service (as it’s been called in the churches I’ve been in) is that it feels contrived. People shouldn’t have to be told to get up and welcome some people. If the people in your church can’t be bothered to say good morning, then you have a real problem, and setting aside an official time of the service to force them to say good morning does nothing to fix that problem.
Furthermore, there is SO MUCH time before and after the service for socializing.
Two thumbs up for Nicholas’s comment (who lacked a “reply” button). Let’s all just take a moment to really consider, “If the people in your church can’t be bothered to say good morning, then you have a real problem, and setting aside an official time of the service to force them to say good morning does nothing to fix that problem.”
I would argue that the problem would people who think that the whole purpose of church is to not “bother” people. If you’re main reason for defection is a handshake from a stranger, we are doing pretty good as a church methinks.
These things have always driven me crazy. You have a good flow going and you suddenly want to slam on the breaks so the people that have been talking to each other all morning can talk to each other again? And Josh, handshake from “A” stranger is fine, you get 7, 8, 9, 10 strangers coming at you at once and it is intimidating. Most first timers are wanting to observe and not wanting attention drawn to them like this.
We used to have a time when people could introduce themselves. Absolute death! Most people are scared to do it, and besides, IMO it’s rude. When I’m walking along a street with a friend and we come upon someone else whom I know but my friend doesn’t, what’s the polite thing?: *I* introduce them. I don’t expect them to introduce themselves to each other.
So what we do now is have people greet the folks around them and if a regular meets someone who’s new, they ask whether they’d like to be introduced more widely. After a couple of minutes to say hello, I ask if anyone has someone to introduce and I bring the mic around to those who raise their hands. More than half the time, I’d say, people decline to be so introduced, but the offer is friendly. A newcomer is our guest and whoever meets them first will introduce them to others. After they’re introduced, we all say “welcome!” and at the end we say “welcome!” to everyone.
This has also helped my very introverted congregation get used to the process of greeting newcomers. Without that appropriate time and cue, many would feel it was an imposition to say hello to the person next to them.
Some people are super-shy, have Asperger’s, or the like, and just sit quietly during greeting time. And I’m sure some people deliberately come in late to miss it. That’s okay. Most people are there.
Good point about “slamming on the brakes.” I agree, which is why greeting is the first thing we do, after I say welcome. Then I give any spoken announcements and then I say, “And now let us begin our service,” and the prelude begins.
IMO, this is one of three or four key things we’ve changed that has led the typical newcomer’s description to change from “Chilly bunch!” to “What a warm, friendly congregation!”
I don’t think #1 was referring to a meet and greet. I thought he was saying folks were uncomfortable when everybody was expected to turn and shake hands or whatever with everybody around them during the service. Or at some churches were you ‘pass the peace’. This makes me uncomfortable as well because I am rather shy. When you say meet and greet, I am thinking of something in the vestibule, nave, or whatever where you greet newcomers. That is great to have.
I have been in a church where sharing the peace becomes a moment of mayhem. It completely turned me off. Folks running up and down the aisles were actually taking care if church business.
I think your right. I am a private person with a small personal space “bubble”. I avoid the greeting at all costs. Some days it’s difficult to smile and act like I’m awake :). And have you ever turned to shake hands and everyone is busy shaking someone else’s hand? Awkward. Or three people are trying to shake hands at the same time? I like the idea of greeters, but as was mention before church business and hugs from ” friends” keeps them from the more important task at hand. Whatever happened to ushers? They always took care of new people, made sure they had a good seat, and heavans could they not politely introduce the families a person might be sitting next to? New or not it sure would make for a friendlier and more familiar environment. “And do you know the Smiths?” Most adults can take any direction they like from there. A simple hello to a full on “my name is Sally, what is your name again?” And so on. As a child our ushers were always the friendly faces of our community. It doesn’t have to be the elderly gentlemen many of us associate with ushers. They don’t even have to be men. Just kind and friendly. I hope there are some of those in most churches. When my family was church “shopping” some of the worst things were definitely PARKING, being ignored at the greeting, too much talk about the future of the church and how much it was going to cost (there was even one that handed out a form for you to sign to become responsible for a portion of their new mortgage- $10k worth), an egotistical pastor, general lack of respect for the Church-clothing, attitude, kids chomping gum and lack of attention and participation. I’m fine with jeans and a T-shirt on kids or on my worst days, but cut-offs, flip flops, adults in shorts on Sunday morning, pastors in jeans, etc. etc. No bulletin of what to expect during the service. If children were dismissed at a certain time and where to take them, music to be played, if any, greeting, fellowship after service and where, location of information area and many more. You learn a lot about a church family by announcements of small groups or events. And oh my the unfriendly, unwelcoming, or false friendly people! More of those than the genuinely kind I think sometimes. And let’s not forget the loud music. It might be beautiful music! But my ears were still bleeding afterwards. And please don’t clap to “praise the Lord”. Everyone knows we are clapping for the praise ” band” or choir or whatever. I don’t think God gets excited about applause. And just to be clear. I’m not some old fashioned woman from the 40s and 50s! This is a contemporary perspective. Just wanted to be clear 🙂
As a shy introvert, a stand up meet and greet sounds terrifying. Please let me attend the service without having to do this. I can meet people afterwards if I’d like. I’m not sure about that devil guy though.
Jeff
I think a meet & greet is VOLUNTARY. No on is going to force a visitor to come to those. It’s usually held after service anyway. It’s an option for the visitor to find out more if they wish to.
Not everyone seeks to meet other people. If the meet and greet happens to include these people then visitors can and will get the wrong impression of the church. Meet and greet should be offered after the worship service. More time to talk and more genuine.
Our church still does the meet and greet. If visitors resent the fact that we’re loving and friendly, what am I supposed to do about it? Be less friendly and loving? That ain’t going to happen.
Ken, your response reminds me of those who proclaim how humble they are. Lol. True humility doesn’t proclaim it to the world. Likewise, someone who is truly loving and friendly isn’t going to force themselves upon another individual. Since you go to church to learn and grow in serving your community, rule #1 is to consider the very community you are there to serve. Church should be an organization that exists for those who are not its members. If your focus is on YOUR love and YOUR friendliness…well, the focus is on you.
I think a happy medium for churches to consider is having greeters that are authentically kind and friendly as people enter the building and then having a “coffee time” or something comparable after service. That way guests can experience unobtrusive friendliness at the door and then if they like what they see or are further curious about that community, they can make the choice to engage further after service without any pressure.
one reason I stayed at our church was our ‘greet your neighbor’ time. Finally a church that even cared if I was there. Our church leadership has talked about this at great length as we have read articles such as this, but it really is who we are as a congregation. It is wrong for us to be chameleons and change our true colors for every visitor that comes through the door. That would be hypocrisy and also why many leave the church. We don’t expect every one who visits to stay a lifetime, but we do try to leave every visitor with a touch of Jesus for the time that they are visiting. What makes me uncomfortable when I visit a church is one that is so big that it requires parking attendants and a faceless ‘information’ booth, and a coffee shop. Makes me feel like I have just been at an amusement park! On the other hand, that atmosphere may ‘work’ for someone else, and I would never suggest that the church changes just for me. There are plenty of styles and churches for everyone. What is most important is that the church preaches and teaches the Truth of God.
Ken,
I wonder if you would agree, after thinking about it, that your comments focus not on the visitor but on the member? By definition, it would seem that the intent of “a meet and greet” is one that should be helpful and welcoming from the perspective of the visitor. Too frequently, church members misread or misinterpret what visitors need or want and make the assumption that “the way we (read that members) do it is the way they (read that visitors) ought to like it and if they don’t, too bad. If visitors don’t appreciate or value the way you are “helping,” then, it really is not helping at all; not attending to that fact does not make it any less true. Christians, in the best sense of the word, best serve others when they see it from the other’s point of view rather through the lens of their own personal perceptions.
> If visitors resent the fact that we’re loving and friendly,
If #1 refers to asking visitors to stand up in the middle of the service, and be recognized, then you emphasizing that they are outsiders, and need to be thrown back into the ghetto from whence they came. There is nothing friendly about such a request.
If, OTOH, #1 refers to the “Passing of the Peace” during the service, whereby everybody says “May the Peace of the Lord Be Unto You” to everybody around them, that is common in quasi-liturgical churches, then it is a description of an act that should be sacred, and friendliness does not enter into it at all. Visitors who are unaware of this liturgical curiousity are left confused as to what is being done, and why it is being done. The action is not viewed as “friendly”, becuase it emphasizes that they are outsiders. It also implies that there are secret codes to learn, if one is to worship there.
If, on the gripping hand, #3 refers to the habit in some churches of talking to a visitor already seated in a pew, then the activity is more apt to be viewed as “I must have come to the wrong place, a rock concern, perhaps. Not a church.”
What has been described as the acid test for sincere friendliness is, without having the first time vistitor pointed out to you, asking them to dinner at home with you are your family, after the service has ended. Whilst the guest is in your abode, you may not discuss either your, or their relig ious beliefs. The sole exception is to pray before and after the meal, if that is your natural habit. This approach also means that your meal must be adjustable for any dietery requirements that the guests may have.
Nice judgmental responses from people that know nothing about me or my church. We have a “meet and greet” time for the specific purpose of welcoming guests. No, we don’t single them out, but we do try to make them feel welcome. Would you prefer that we ignore them? If we did, I can practically guarantee you some of them would complain that our church is unfriendly and snobbish.
The reality is, you’re not going to please everyone on this issue. The mixed responses to this blog are living proof. I’d rather my congregation err on the side of love and friendliness. If you resent the fact that our church is friendly, then I don’t see what we can possibly do about it.
Jonathan, nice Frederick Pohl reference (on the gripping hand).
Ken, I like the gist of your response and was amused by your response to the responses. Truly you can’t please everyone and that’s not what church is for. I’ve been in churches that had meet and greets that lasted one third of one song, and others that devolved into beautiful bedlam where the pastor had to get on the mic and say, “I love how loving this group is… In two minutes we’re going to take seats and begin the message.”
As you noticed, I said “beautiful” bedlam. Yes. it was chaotic… and I’m sure some (especially introverts) would like that less (although my introverted wife actually did liked the moment I’m referring to), but it felt like community and that is what church is. Ecclesia just means “gathering of called out ones.
The 30 second shake-hands-and-introduce-yourself kind of “meet and greet” has regularly felt phony to me… Heck I’ve been phony in those moments. The issue (and why your post elicited a response from me) is when the visitor seems offended by the lovingness and the friendliness, its often because they’ve either experienced the phony I mentioned (and was), or they’re skeptical that it can be genuine.
If too short a period of time is devoted to it, then surface level is all you can get—which makes “church people” seem phony even if they’re not. Finding the right balance of time spent there is very difficult. But, finding what works for the community you’re trying to reach (prayerfully and genuinely) is what we should do.
If we can’t present as genuine Christ followers, we can’t lead new folks to Jesus. Unfortunately, too often that’s all we’re doing. “Presenting as genuine Christ followers”. Not unsaved, wolves in sheep’s clothing, but emotional, spiritual, internal messes that answer, “Great!” like Tony the Tiger, or “Praise God!” whenever asked, “How are you today.”
I cannot speak for your church, but I’ve been too many places (and no I am not a church-hopper or shopper—I’ve been in ministry in 3 churches over 22 years and am currently on sabbatical), but I’ve been too many places (including churches I’ve ministered in) where being genuine seemed foreign and had to be pried out of regular attenders. How rarely have I heard a genuine, “I’m not doing so great today. Could you pray for me?” in those short meet and greet times.
If we are not genuine (not saying you aren’t) then that meet and greet time, regardless of it brevity or elongation (like this response), serves mostly to bolster regular attenders and separate newbies. Just food for thought. Thank you for sharing.
I have been reading these responses and feel that a meet and greet is not the bar for which the church is being judged as to its friendliness. However, there is a question as to its usefulness in welcoming guests. Those of us in church service planning think about will new participants and guest feel welcome. We want the body to be a safe sanctuary welcoming to those passing through our doors. Different churches take different steps to achieve that. The thought process as to whether to include a meet and greet time does not at all suggest a church should be more or less loving. But rather, whether there should be a specific time in the line up of worship / Sermon devoted to it. it is arguable ken, that if your church is naturally a welcoming, loving, warm, and friendly place then you may have no need to design a friendly time within your service line up.
Some people find it “odd” that people have to be told to greet them or each other for that matter. I have found people have asked (As I myself did before accepting salvation) why would the body of Christ, an entity devoted to love and christian principle need to be told to say hi to me? wouldn’t that be a natural outpouring from the spirit… “You shall no my disciples by their love” John 13:35. To an outsider it seems odd or fake if people who claim to be disciples need to be told to demonstrate love.
To many churches though, order of worship and a meet and greet is a tradition that many attendants have known all their lives. To change or get rid of it would be to some like cutting off a part of the path to salvation. (Not that it would be of course) But we as humans are a people of habit, prone to our own idiosyncrasies in our own pharisee like ways. We all have it. I could get into a talk of modern pharisee like behavior with regards to church but I think that’s beyond the spectrum of this discussion.
So I guess the question is what is the Vision and Mission for your body? & Does a meet and greet time support that mission? Is it effective? Try to answer these questions outside of the warm and fuzzies for tradition, and time honored traits and we may be close to identifying what to keep and what to change when it comes to greeting, and church introductions. I have my own ideas on what a really good model for church greeting I have seen and believe is effective and if anyone would like to ask that feel free. However these are my thoughts concerning the topic at hand. I hope it helps.
Ken – This response in no way seeks to suggest what you and your church are doing is wrong in any way. I’m merely trying to broaden the scope of the discussion.
The church is for the un- churched not the churched. Get it? Visitor’s visit a church to see how the church operates especially meeting people. If you have that idea that its too bad if they feel uncomfortable I would say you have a lot to learn.
I am a committed Christian and a regular church goer. When I last visited my parents I went to their church with them and there was a meet/greet/handshake whatever it is. No one shook my hand or greeted me but I had to endure that time just chatting with my 10 and 13 year old boys. Awkward and I know what it’s for. My parents weren’t sitting with me and I only visit their church once every 3 years when we are able to get back from overseas. My point being they wouldn’t have ignored me because they knew I knew people there. If I was a non-churchgoing visitor I imagine it’s even more awkward.
Johnathon
I’m curious. Have you ever invited a new person, without them having been pointed out to you, to your abode for lunch only to find out they’ve been sitting eight rows behind you for the last three years?cb
> Have you ever invited a new person, without them having been pointed out to you, to your abode for lunch only to find out they’ve been sitting eight rows behind you for the last three years.
No.
I’ll point that the 2007 National Congregational Study data indicates that 59% of the religious organizations it surveyed had less than 100 members, with the average congregation having just 75 regular participants, albeit the average atendee worshiped with four hundred other regular participants, and that 50% of the church-going population attend a church with 350+ members.
I’ll also grant that that study managed to miss what is probably the fastest growing movement in the United States — the House-Church Movement.
Interesting. I would much prefer that everyone ignore me if I am visiting a church.
We frequently have a Get Up And Greet. During one service there was a sermon point where the pastor said that people need X-number of positive touches or hugs. I felt extremely uncomfortable as a MEMBER to have so many people insist on touching me or hugging me because the pastor said to do so. I can’t imagine how horrified I would have felt as a visitor!
Also, I am an Elder at a church of about 160 members. I admit there are days I want to go to church to worship, not to feel like I am being put to work. I like the anonymity of visiting another church, and honestly on those days I would rather not make any kind of connection with anyone other than the Lord.
So yeah, I’m not a Get Up And Greet fan.
I am sure the people that take the time to respond say that but you would never see any of the people who do find meet and greet off-putting. trying to judge your new and visiting members by only those who stay is like trying to judge a sports team by only their victories when you have no idea what your record is. As someone who is and has been looking for a new church and also been part of several new churches the meet and greet is definitely a point of contention in any church and only the most extroverted people in a church find them friendly. Most people who are not completed extroverts (my wife and sons) find the meet and greet time a waste and struggle with the pointless small talk that does not work to increase connections between members. F.y.i if your members really know each other they will probably meet and see each other before the service. To me the meet and greet is really just an extroverts idea gone awry (I am an extrovert). just a thought from a christian looking for a church.
As a visitor to a new church, I can’t honestly say I’ve EVER enjoyed, or seen the point, in a meet and great period.
First of all, I’m an introvert and having a bunch of strangers come up to me all at once expecting to shake my hand and get my name and ask whether I’ve been there before and so on doesn’t feel friendly and inviting, it feels forced and uncomfortable and overwhelming.
Second, in some churches, it’s used entirely as a “greet your friends” time so guests are left standing awkwardly, watching everyone else hug and kiss their friends.
Third, I just don’t see the point. If you attend regularly, you should be able to catch up with your friends before or after church. If you don’t, it seems far more authentic and has way more impact if people come up to you naturally before or after service than to have an assigned time to greet the new person so their obligations can be met.
I absolutely despise the meet and greet held in the middle of services. I like to prepare myself for worship of my Lord Jesus Christ. This means I enjoy having a quiet time before service start, so many people allow their children to run up and down the aisles screaming and yelling, adults also talk loud and come back and forth through the sanctuary. But the music soothes and helps, then right when you are relaxing and looking forward to hearing God’s word you get the meet and greet, for about 10 min. the sanctuary becomes a playground of noise and laughter and milling around. From that point onward the service has lost its ability to offer quiet reflection on the Pastor’s words and the reading of God’s Word. Sorry guys I stopped going to worship services because worship has gone out the window in favor of having a good time.
Nona, perhaps pondering this scripture will help: “Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. ” –1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
I have been a Christian and church attender for most of my life. I am 57. I must agree that the portion of the service where everyone stands up and greets all those around them; receiving hugs from strangers, is the most uncomfortable time for new guests. I dislike it and will avoid going to a new church knowing that this may take place. I believe a better option than putting guests on the spot ( which makes them uncomfortable) is to have what I call a “Linger Longer” time after the service where the pastor and staff are available to all first time visitors in fellowship hall or area off the lobby. Offer them coffee , a snack and answer any questions they may have. This will allow those who are more social to take part in the getting to know you time, and allows for the shy and cautious to leave without being hindered by do good-ers who only hug you at church and ignore you elsewhere.
Hi Thom,
I like the church I joined a year ago. However, one thing they do that I don’t agree with & I can see might turn away new comers is the “don’t re-enter main auditorium once service has begun” sign they post & try to actually “enforce”. They post a sign at the two main entrances to the auditorium & make an announcement that basically says if you leave to use the bathroom or whatnot, please do not return into the auditorium as it can be a distraction to the service. However, they suggest that you then sit in one of the “over-flow’ areas that has TV screens.
If it weren’t for my desire in wanting to attend this particular church – I almost didn’t come back because of this. I researched the church online, did a live stream & really liked the pastor. That’s what finally directed me to go to this church. However, my 1st time there I was a bit late, hadn’t been to church in 6 months & was desperate for the Lord. When I was about to enter the auditorium the usher asked if I could please sit in the “over-flow” area so as to not disturb the service. However, I was in such a desperate place that I flat-out told him that I NEEDED to be inside those closed doors & I didn’t mind taking a back-seat. I told him that I was DESPERATE to be at this service. So thankfully he obliged.
However, I can easily see where that would turn many away. Especially, if they came in with a family & had to unexpectedly use the bathroom. I wouldn’t want to be told upon returning that I could not sit with my family, who is already seated in the auditorium, and that instead I”m being asked to sit “alone” elsewhere outside the auditorium.
So anyway …it’s a bit legalistic to me, but overall I do like my church (even though it’s a bit larger than what I prefer). So I’m still here a year later. I would, however, like to see this policy done away with.
Thanks in advance. Have a blessed day/week!
~ Deb B. ~
Colorado Springs, CO
That would be a huge turn off for me. And yeah, I would think anyone with a family. Or anyone, like my youngest brother who has type one diabetes, who might need to use the bathroom frequently for medical reasons. Or I have a whole list of reasons someone might need to leave the service for a couple moments.
This is actually the reason my wife and I left a church and didn’t come back. I have crazy allergies certain times of the year, and I adjust by sitting in the back so if I have a crazy sneezing fit or something I can duck out quietly, use the restroom, and make my way back in without disturbing other people in the service.
Well I did that at a new church, and they didn’t want to let me back in. I would’ve just walked out, except *my wife was still in the service*.
I understand the idea of being respectful of others, but it has to work both ways IMHO.
I think some of these comments are correct are some are not.
Church is:
A place to worship
A place for fellowship
A place to hear the Gospel
A place of comfort for those hurting
A place to meet God if you are not his child
A place of shelter from the World
A place to grow in His love and Grace
A place of hope
Church is not:
A social club where everyone is catered to.
A place of community – you go to the gym or community center for that
A place to worry about if everyone who visits will come back – do we want them to come back sure but do we understand that not all will? YES
Not every church is right for every person … this is where the Holy Spirit does his work not us as humans. Quit making it like we have so much power to get people to do what we want them to do. Ultimately if a person really wants Jesus they will find a place if they are just being critical of church and why they didn’t stay then I don’t want them in my church. Church is to function as the body of Christ if people don’t really want to be there then it will be like a growth on a body that just sucks out the energy. Church isn’t there to pacify you but everyone working together as Christ’s body. Sometimes people do feel like outsiders because they are – an unsaved person shouldn’t necessarily feel they belong. They are to be drawn to Christ and His love and this can only be done by the preaching of The Word nothing we say or do will change that.
Should we be nice and welcoming? YES
Should we worry about those who are offended because they think church should cater to them? No
I understand the idea that people are searching and if they don’t come back then we haven’t helped them well that is true to a degree but to tell all churches that this or that isn’t the way is putting everyone in one pot and saying we all need to do it the same way. People are different as are churches so let us be different and do what we feel is the right thing for us to reach the lost because that is the ultimate goal.
Beth
You might be missing the point where we started. Maybe some others too? Why are churches dying? Some might say they are just being overwhelmed by the mega-churches. In which case I have to ask, What are they doing that the smaller churches are not? If that’s not the case I have to ask myself if I am doing my part as a deciple of Christ (thereby the Holy Spirit) to bring people to Christ through the Church? So much of what you say is true but you kind of veered off the track for a minute. Not to say that I never have.
cb; you are right on! OUR job, whether pastor or lay-person is to “Make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit AND instructing them in My teachings.”
I remember a friend stating it this way, “In Satan’s ‘perfect world’: Everyone goes to church every week and the GOSPEL is NEVER preached. My observation is this; having watched some of these ‘mega’ churches on TV, I wonder if they even know the gospel. You cannot preach the GOSPEL without preaching about our sin and, therefore, our need, daily, for a crucified, risen and soon coming Savior. You cannot preach ‘about’ the Savior, you must preach THE Savior! And you must preach it with the same intensity of love that He did.
Misconception #1: CHURCH is NOT a place you go – it is a person, the bride of Christ! #1 purpose of the church: to be the physical expression of Christ to those around us, saved and unsaved. ALL of the discord, discontent and disagreement I read above is originated in this misconception. We get so wrapped up in “doing” all the right things that we forsake “being” in Christ and allowing the Christ “in us” to reveal Himself to those around us – consequently, all the people around us see is our failure or success in our efforts to attract them to our specific “brand” of church – and they are unable to see the love of Christ that He desires to flesh out through us. There is so much more to Christ than what is being presented via most pulpits today. The church has become so culturally relevant that it has become spiritually anorexic.
So what is your opinion, Mark, on why the smaller churches especially, are dying? Or do you believe they are thriving and we shouldn’t worry about bringing people in? Lost or not?
> on why the smaller churches especially, are dying?
Money, or more precisely, the lack of money, is the major reason why churches close their doors, and sell the building.
The second biggest factor, is lack of denominational support. This is seen in things such as:
* Minimum number of members to remain a denomination affiliate;
* Imposing requirements that are utterly unrealistic for the catchment area of the congregation;
* Pushing what works at the denomination’s prize multi-campus megachurch, in an area where the only common denominator is that there are a couple of people that belong to the same denomination;
The phenomena flying under everybody’s radar, is the growth of the house-church movement. More significantly, the trend of house-churches emerging out of the ashes of the white clapboard church closing its doors and selling the building.
A church is NOT a place of community? are you serious? really? that misses the boat big time! What in the world is a church if it is not a place of community, of support, and of love???
I’ve translated this post into Spanish. I feel like our Spanish churches could greatly benefit from being aware of these issues. I’ve pastored Spanish churches for last 10 years. Here’s the link
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7k870ioj4nh7mo/Top%20Ten%20Reasons%20First%20Time%20Guests%20Don%27t%20Return%20%28Spanish%29.pdf?dl=0
As the wife of a government worker who moves often and usually attends church alone, I want to say that the 10 points are RIGHT ON. And don’t forget that when a woman attends church alone over a period of time, she becomes a 2nd class pack horse to do church work, and is not highly regarded, like those who attend with a husband.
This has to do with why first vistors don’t come back.
Went to this rural Utah Baptist church for 1st time this A.M. Not ONE person said hello to me. Good salvation message, but sure didn’t seem like any of the members cared if I ever come back.
This reply, as well as some in the list above, strike me as a consumerist mindset. I am all for making visitors feel welcome in our churches, because that is what believers ought to do. But those coming to church should not be coming as consumers, desiring for their own needs to be met in their itches to be scratched. The kind of people we want to coming to our church are eager to give, eager to serve, and hungry to hear from God’s word. We are not going to bend over backwards to act like a business trying to woo customers.
Hope that comment doesn’t come off as grumpy, but I just think that, for the most part, American Evangelicalism has very wrong view of church attendance. The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve…
The people coming to your church may not know how to give and serve yet. They may need the “gift” of Jesus first! Maybe that is why they came and hopefully they WILL see Him in you first, as you “bend over backwards” to serve them, then hear about Him from the pulpit. Then may they learn from your example how to be giving and serving.
Well said, Brenda.
I agree with what Brenda Johns said. We are trying to bring in people who don’t know Jesus or are broken- we SERVE -they learn & grow- THEN they SERVE….and they’ll know we are Christians by our LOVE….
We should also give some thought to the notion that church today needs to reach out to to the people of today. In the same way that church in the past reached out to its people (Hymms, big churches that were the center of social life, sunday school) we have to reach this culture where it is and that “consumerist” notion is a big part of it. It is not so much that businesses want to cater to people as much as they want to understand why people buy and why they stay with brands. once we understand that we can cater to those reasons. In the same way that a sports team studies their actions (AAR in the army) not to cater to someone but to better understand why certain things don’t work so we can make them better. just a thought.
Forget about marketing, packaging or polls and studies about church growth for a moment. Does not the root question boil down to, what is the mission or purpose of the local church? Is it to be seeker-friendly, to attract people to come in from the community? Is it to adopt similar styles of music and surroundings of our culture to help unsaved visitors feel comfortable? Is it to provide a place to hear “feel good,” motivational stories and anecdotes from a central figure who can fill a half hour around a few Bible verses? NO to all of the above! The primary reason a local church exists is to equip believers to grow and mature in their faith to reach unsaved people for Christ in their daily interactions, whether it be co-workers, neighbors or school classmates. This practice used to be called “Lifestyle Evangelism” where people reached out and came alongside one another through natural relationships. The Bible is clear on its many “one-anothers” where we as members of the local church are accountable for using our gifts and helping to recharge each other. Those who are reaching out need to be equipped through interaction with each other and through attending a spiritual learning laboratory that is focused on Biblical precepts and an atmosphere of reverence and worship of God. Hope this makes sense.
My thought exactly Brenda. Many people are searching for God on their first visit. They know nothing of giving or serving. Seek ye the Lost.
People have to be very careful, though, when it comes to assuming things. Just because it is the first time someones seen someone come to that church doesnt mean they are lost, etc. There could be a number of reasons why they are coming there. Until Church decides to go outside themselves to genuinely get to know the person, they are just unfairly passing judgment on them, instead of just coming alongside them, and loving them like Jesus. I’m sure there are those who are where u have described, as well. I don’t believe someone has to bend over backwards either, to assist them, if they just take the time to really show interest of wanting to know where they are so they can help Are they also being included in other areas? Are they there to truly bear one another’s burdens and assist like James calls us to, in the moment and not just pass it off as ,I will keep u in prayer alone. Just things to consider.
Brenda, well said. Visitors have made the first step. It is our opportunity to treat them as we woul like to be treated when we visit a new church.
Brenda, you’ve made an excellent point. I worked for a church for almost 10 years and saw people come and go. We had greeters at the front doors, but they spent their time visiting with their friends rather than giving a warm handshake to the visitors and letting them know we were happy they came. Since God moved me to another church I have run into several people in and outside of the church that had visited my old church. ALL of them said that was the most unfriendly church we’ve ever been in. They felt like it was just a click of relatives and old friends. Of course they never came back. They finally found a church where they felt welcome and the Word of God was preached. A few were not saved and never been in a church before. If people don’t feel welcome initially they are uncomfortable throughout the church service and those unsaved people never comprehended the Biblical message. If your visitors don’t feel welcome, they will never come back. That’s unfortunate because there are many lost souls out there that need a warm environment and feel the love of Jesus. How else will they ever be saved? We must be an example of Jesus and be warm and friendly to all.
100% agreed !!
Imagine if a rather large church had to cater for every visitor’s wish.
Basic information and cleanliness is not catering to visitors every wish. If that is how your church feels then it doesn’t serve the same God I do and I have no desire to be there.
I become offended by people who think there are many Gods. There is only one God, not “your” God.
If you go to a hospital, museum, a mall-ever needed to look at the map?- or any public event, the things addressed above are things you’ve probably used, or contributed to your experience. Sloppy nurseries suggest a lack of concern for such things as background checks for volunteers to weed out molesters.
Should we divorce courtesy from service because it’s church? Anything less, then we’re not seeking and saving those who are lost, we’re ignoring them.
A discussion could be had on who the actual church service is for: the lost, or for the found to worship the King, and receive specific training and impartation…but even Christians need and want these things.
Great points, Daniel.
That’s somewhat of a straw man. As I said, we should do many of these things – but we should be courteous because that’s what Christians do, not because we are primarily concerned with retention of visitors. Should we have sloppy nurseries? Of course not! Should we have poorly kept facilities? Obviously not. Should we conduct thorough background checks? Of course. Should we warmly welcome visitors to our church? Yes, yes, and yes. The point of my initial comment was that it’s easy to drift into a mindset that views church visitors as consumers to be wooed.
And the crux of the issue here is to point out that church is for believers. This is the first time in the history of the church in 2000 years that churches have begun to think of the “unchurched” as their primary customers. Unsaved people are welcome guests, but they are spectators. The church primarily meets together for the purpose of edification of its members, not evangelism. Again, don’t misconstrue what I am saying. If someone comes to our church and is gloriously saved, that’s wonderful, and we rejoice. And we want to do everything we can to display the love of Christ to them when we come. But the church meets for the edification of believers. That is the point.
Dan is right is what he is saying. I work in a grocery store and we have a BPTS score, that is a Best Place to Shop score. Suprisingly, most of the top ten list of reasons for people not returning to the church look alot like the criteria for scoring how well we are doing as a grocery store chain. I have been invited to come to someone’s church and the first thing they said was that, “Our church has 800 members attending every Sunday.” This criteria doesn’t necessary prove that it’s a more righteous church, it just proves that they are better at performing in a competitive church market.
I believe that this list, while reflecting an unbiased poll, shouldn’t be a checklist for improving your church. To quote Dan, “the church meets for the edification of believers.” And also, Jesus said, “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.” It is the members of the body of Christ that are to attract the nonbeliever, not the cleanliness of the facilities or adequate signage. Seriously, are you a church or a grocery store?
If this attitude is pervasive, it’s no wonder the church is dying across America. I do see your point that the Church is not supposed to simply cater to the whims of every visitor, but it’s ridiculous to argue that for 2000 years churches have primarily been hunker down clique fests to edify the members. The Church is, like everything else, primarily for the Glory of God thanks to the work of Jesus Christ on the cross and through the prodding of the Holy Spirit. Our God is a God of Truth and reconciling the World to the Truth.
If the comments were related to preaching hard truths or being more allowing of sin, then you’d be much closer to correct. As it is, clean facilities and friendly faces with quality information sources shouldn’t primarily be about a visitor’s mindset any more than good teaching and music should be primarily about a believer’s edification. It’s all about God Almighty, and it always will be, no matter what we do to mess it up.
This isn’t a debatable topic and clearly not open to a fallacies mindset. Guests who visit might be seeking, never having sought before. What would Jesus do? Prepare more wine and bread for the guests, not radicalize your contempt for their way of thinking. Think God.
I think you need to read the New Testament. If the church exists to carry out the ministry and mission of Jesus – which is what i read – then the church absolutely exists for the unchurched because Jesus didn’t come for church people – he came for lost people. That whole I’ll leave the 99 to go after the 1 lost “sheep” – I think he meant for us to model that.
So yeah we should bend over backwards to make guests welcome in our churches.
I agree with Dan as to what the church is and that is to equip the saints and not only edify but hold each other accountable. We then go out and reach the lost. Those coming to a church that are critical are coming from another church membership looking for a new church home due to whatever reason whether moving or disgruntled.
As the scriptures say….we are to do and say everything as unto the Lord, so the cleanliness and information needed is of course very necessary for visitors whether they are believers or not. But the most important issue is the attitudes of the members. But Im telling you that we are all disfunctional in one way or another and no matter how genuine you are and how well we mean…they’re are some people who will never be happy! So my next big thing for me is the deliverance of the Truth! I like cleanliness….it speaks volumes to me and I will spare you…..I like children well taken care of and that they are taught truth…..not guilt! I want all the info I can get and the details of the one in charge. I want info about the Pastor and I will go many times to hear him because I think he will set the tone of the whole! I have to say…..the pesrons that have turned me off more than once are the women/men who think they run the church and their attitudes….from the decorations committee to the wedding co-ordinator to the Administrator to the SS Superintendent. Its all in how they carry their attitude in their authority of their job. It may not be the deciding factor in my joining but it sure might determine as to where I might want to serve. These are things I dont think a Pastor is always inclined to know either. And Im not going to tattle but Im just adding to what might be added to the list!!! ATTITUDE of the one serving!
Dan,
Where do you go to church, your description of what a church should do for its members and visitors is exactly what I grew up with in Atlanta and have not been able to find since moving to Fort Worth TX. If anyone knows of a church with a mindset like this, one that is committed to its members and not just another mega church looking to bring in the most people (primarily non believers) in the Fort Worth area please reply and let me know.
I have visited numerous churches in the area who are more concerned with butts in seats then the individuals in those seats. Church has become for so many a business with a required return rate. I don’t want someone to bend over backwards to make me feel welcome. If you speak the word of God truthfully and in a way that relates to my life than that is the only thing you need to do to recruit me. (Clean facilities are kind of a must though, I don’t want to be more concerned for my health or the health of my family than the word of God while in church…)
I would love to find a local church with members that genuinely want to know me and are not only concerned with the state of my soul. The state of my soul is between me and God, members of local churches need to be less concerned with converting me to God and no longer assume because I am a visitor I need to be saved. Many friends of mine who visit churches are transplants like me who grew up in the faith, next time you are trying to greet a visitor try asking them what denomination they were raised in before you assume they are a lost sheep.
I was waiting for someone to say this! The purpose of the church is to worship God and for a body of believers to be spiritually fed and encouraged. Visitors and unbelievers are welcome and I’m always thrilled that they are there hearing the Word. Of course we should be loving and friendly and hospitable. But ultimately the church is about GOD and his worship and glory.
Why should there be anything other than…. parking and handicapped parking? Isn’t that exclusionary to designate “visitors should park here?” And secondly I think the mission of the church is laid out in Ephesians 4:12 –for the perfecting of the saints, work of the ministry (charity and evangelism) and the edifying of the body of Christ. We are commanded to go to all people and share the good news of Christ as well as minister in our communities doing needed service, and to strenghten and visit members of the church.
Who are we trying to attract? Believers or non believers? I do not remember where I heard this quote but I think it is a good one: “The church is the only establishment for those who are not a part of it yet”. (Referring to non believers)
We as believers should have the most attractive, cleanest, friendliest, etc of any establishment in our communities.
Also, we have to remember that non believers and immature believers are going to be consumeristic. That is a heart issue not a church issue.
This is why church teaching and discipleship is essential to combatting those thoughts. What kind of culture has been set up within our individual churches? How well trained are our leaders to combat the consumeristic thinking? How are we disciplining these individuals once they are in our churches?
Dan it sounds like you are very passionate about people and Jesus. Keep up the great work where you are and keep Jesus first always!
Sure, dismiss the consumerist mindset if you’re only interested in reaching churchy people. But if truly unchurched people, far from God and the things of God, are the “guest” you have in mind, you’ve gotta deal with and relate to the consumerist mindset. Plain and simple.
This is so true. BY all means greet visitors. Make them feel that they are at home. THIS is how I found the church I am now attending. I was treated as a member from the first visit and that did not stop at the church but anywhere I was seen in our small town. I was told, Hello. Asked how I was doing. Last but the most importantly, was asked to come back.
Dan:
You said, “Hope that comment doesn’t come off as grumpy, but I just think that, for the most part, American Evangelicalism has very wrong view of church attendance. The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve…”
It came across as grumpy. I have no way of proving this scientifically but I bet another Twitter poll of those who visited a church once never to return would agree. The Son of Man also came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10).
Most of Thom’s list deals with rude people or neglected facilities in one way or another. That anything related to how we behave toward guests AND how we maintain our facilities would show up on a list like this should be of great concern. Worse still is thought that someone would not feel our children’s areas are safe. Heaven forbid! As for boring or bad services, if our guests think the service is lousy, many of the saints in attendance do too. I think that is a problem and would hope that you , as a music guy, would too.
I agree with Brenda. Also, it’s not about the “retention of visitors”, it’s about seeing lives changed through Jesus and making disciples. And removing the barriers to that for our friends, family, neighbors and coworkers, as well as those we don’t know yet (“strangers.”)
I think that was the original intent of the article.
You said it best, Jesus came to serve. We’re to imitate Christ. That means serving. Or bending over backwards, like Jesus did. He went way out of his way to reach people. The people the religious elite of the day ignored. That’s who Jesus reached out to. Zaccheus, the woman at the well, lepers. The outcasts, the despised, those far from God.
Jesus fed “the 5000” right? Why did he cater to their needs? Probably for a few reasons, but one among them certainly, because at that moment, their hunger was a barrier to them finding Christ. He removed that barrier.
And quite a few we saved. .
I don’t think words like “customer” or “spectator” capture what these people are. They are souls. Lost souls, who are loved by God. People who have been led through our doors by no coincidence but, rather, the hand of God.
God help us, if we don’t love and serve them as Jesus made clear we should.
If we do anything to push them away from God, and they spend eternity separated from Him…shame on us.
Consumerist?
It’s not an issue of “I need to cater to these people so they come back.” It’s a matter of “as the church, we should be welcoming and hospitable.” It’s not an issue of being a Christian or not, it’s an issue of being new. You said the church is for believers. Irrelevant to this article. I believe, and the points in these articles ring very true to me.
You don’t need to bend over backwards. You need to pretend that Jesus walks through your door each week. He’s never been there before – welcome Him. Make sure somebody talks to Him and makes some kind of connection. Don’t make Him wander around for 10 minutes to find the sanctuary. And if you’re going to tell Him you’re glad He’s there, let your actions match your words.
It’s fine if you don’t want to focus on these things, but it makes a big difference in other issues church people love to talk about. For example, have you ever had a conversation about why young people leave the church? Probably because I moved across the country after college and looking for a church is emotionally exhausting.
So what about winning the lost ??? That’s the “consumers” you are pushing out . Sounds like your focus has been lost.
I’m not a pastor, just a regular old churchgoer. My family attends services weekly and, after being part of a congregation for a decade, felt called to visit other churches and look for a new church home. Based on my recent experiences, the above list really rang true for me. It’s not about being marketed to or wanting churches to treat us like a commodity. In fact, that’s the exact opposite of what my partner and I want and if we get the vibe that a church is overly slick, we shy away. The truth is when we visit a place that is clean, comfortable, and welcoming, it helps us relax and hear the Word. Same goes for feeling like our children are well cared-for. I like that other commenters have pointed out that it’s a consumer-driven approach we’re talking about here but rather simple hospitality.
I think my concern is that we are not focused on the lost. They act like they are lost and they will not be coming to church in the mindset to add anything to “Your Church”. They are at a point of what the church can to for them until they meet Christ and become a new creature. then and only then will they dive in and become invested. You need to be reminded of Paul…”I have become all things so that I might win some”…If Christ said I will allow you to be apart of the redemptive process for a 100 people, but I need you to have purple hair….well, I am going to have purple hair if I can see 100 people become followers of Christ!
My pastor has said from the pulpit more than once “if you come for any reason other than to hear God’s word preached” please go somewhere else you will be happy. To the point.
I’m sure your pastor is a great guy, but that point sounds very self-serving. He’s saying he is the only reason to come to church and his message is without question the very word of God. It’s attitudes like this that scare away a lot of seekers.
It’s Biblical that people should come together for fellowship, support and to server others. If it’s only about hearing a message preached, I can that online or play an MP3. Ironically, technology would put your pastor out of a job.
Going to church about many things and most certainly not just to hear some guy uncork his message.
Klutch, totally agree with you.
As a *Christian* preaching is important. And if a church doesn’t have good preaching, I’m not inclined to return.
But people go to a new church for a variety of reasons. Some of them are Christians looking for a new church, and they have criteria they’re evaluating. Some of them might have been invited by a friend (who may or may not be there that week!). Some of them might be in some manner of crisis and looking for a friendly ear.
And I don’t think any of those are wrong.
It would be like a car dealer greeting everybody that walks through the door with, “if you’re walking into this dealership, you’d better be interested in purchasing a car today. If you’re not, get out.”
That’s not wisdom, it’s arrogance. Huge difference. 🙂
The purpose of the church is to serve. That means you also. Be understanding that visitors may be looking for help and direction in life. If your heart is to reach the harvest, then you will look to help them first before asking them to serve. Unless of course you only want Christians coming in your door. I desire for the lost to come in and have a experience with the most high God.
Robert Wall
Well said! That’s it in a nutshell I’d say.
Dan,
This is not a consumerist mindset. But a means for people to actually know what your church is and stands for.
Church is not so much a sanctuary for saints, but a hospital for sinners.
I guess I’ll be proud to say we violate rule number one. Many have actually joined our church because we genuinely are able to show how much we care and love one another. Something lacking in a lot of lives. We don’t overwhelm the new people, but they know that they are welcome. I can’t tell you how we do the balance, since it seems to be organic in our congregation.
Our church welcomes those who are hurting, questioning, or even angry. To say the “church is for believers” is to overlook the intention of the Gospel. The intention of The Gospel is to reconcile mankind, in all it’s ugly, messy confusion, to God. To say that it is only for believers is to negate the entire message. How can we reach a hurting world unless we let it into our own sphere of influence? If we can’t serve them in our own sanctuary, how can we even have the chutzpah (unmitigated gall) to “serve” them on their turf?
The Old Testament, numerous times harangued us about the laws of hospitality, welcoming the stranger. I have no argument to refuse anyone from entering our “holy” doors. In this way, they can see us by our love for each other, and surprisingly enough, if we do this right, we include “them” and they know us for what we are, Followers of The Christ.
By doing this, we have the chance to fulfill the Great Commission, to create Disciples.
One of the major problems I have with your position is that you posit a “we” vs. “them” position. Here is a news flash for you. Many a time in the Old Testament it has been stated, “God is no respecter of persons”. Jesus, himself, had a few examples of how this “us vs. them” is a fallacy. Let’s take a deeper look at the “Good Samaritan” story by looking at the character of the Samaritans of the time. The Samaritans were a tribe that were to far in the mountains for the Persians to drive out of the former kingdom of Israel. So, when the people from that time were allowed to come back, the Samaritans did not recognized the prophets from the diaspora . There was a amenity that went very deep. The Samaritans did not even have the courtesy to worship from the “proper” mountaintop. “They” worshiped from the mountaintop of Moses, the Jews, from the threshold of Jesse.
The enmity from those that staid, and those that came back, in Jesus’s time was enormous and largely ignored by us. The Samaritans would frequently light contradictory fires on the mountains to confound the Jews’ calendar. They were as much , if not more hated by Israel, than we are expected to hate Muslims in our time. And yet, who is the hero in this story? The Sadducees? No. The Scholar of the Law (Pharisee)? No. It was the most despised of the Jewish religion of the time that is the hero of this story. The Samaritan was far more of Christ than his contemporaries.
I was really surprised at you comments Dan. People visit churches because they are hurting, or just searching for a friendly and welcome place to attend. You never know what a visitor is feeling or what he/she is going through when they visit your church. They wouldn’t be visiting your church if they were not in need of something.
Dan, the kind of people that Jesus wants are the unchurched. Your church does not exist for itself and the comfort of your people. As you plan to win the lost and make disciples of the saved, you have to balance the two. If your main way of engaging unchurched people is through your morning worship service, you have to make it friendly to the comfort levels of the unchurched. I hope that you did not imply that you only want a specific type of unchurched person, i.e., one that liked what you like. If so, how are you partnering with God to win the people who are not like you?
I agree with you, Christopher Sanchez. The fact that many people disagree with you is part of the problem with the American Church. The First Century Church wasn’t about meeting the needs of those coming. In fact, I don’t think the Church should be viewed as a place one goes to get saved. It should be a place people go who are saved. Could you imagine Paul insisting his churches to be more lively because people think it’s boring and not coming back away? Christians shouldn’t invite people who are not Christians to church. Christians should open their eyes to Christ first, then bring them to church.
Oh Dan. You say “”The kind of people we want to coming to our church are eager to give, eager to serve, and hungry to hear from God’s word”? Indeed, until they start to be a threat, and then those in power get afraid, get jealous and destroy them. That is when they leave and never come back, and you are lucky if you haven’t ensured that they will never set foot in a church again. And yes, I speak from extremely painful experience.
Are you the paster?
I find your comment rather shocking, and offensive. For you to say the people that YOU WANT to attend your church kinda sums up this whole conversation. I don’t believe sir that it’s your choice who God leads to his CHURCH. It’s your job to guide them after God has led them. I wonder if he felt like he was bending over backwards or scratching an itch while his son died for you…. . It is very clear to me why people feel lost when they arrive at your building they are looking for a home and what they found was a cold building with grumpy people who are set in ther ways.
Susan
I love your reference to how God wasn’t bending over backwards etc. when His son died for us! Because when His Son died for us what were we? Sinners! Therefore there would be no Church if not for sinners! There would have been no need for Jesus to die. No deciples to start the Church. But when the deciples DID start the Church-with believers, what was the purpose of the Church? It is what we call the Great Commission. To seek and save the lost. Believers still go to church to be fed, strengthened by the Word of God and to be in fellowship with other Christians as the New Testament tells us to do. But all of this is to help us continue to serve and save the lost so there will be new generations of deciples to bring people to Christ. If we bring the lost through our doors to teach them about Christ, but they can’t find our sanctuary, or feel welcome, or be comfortable leaving their children in our care how will they hear The Word? And the orphaned (those who have somehow been displaced from their church family) how can they keep their commitment to Christ strong and healthy, as we have the privelidge of doing, if they have difficulties in finding a church that will bend over at least sideways to cater to as many different kinds of people as possible by giving them at least the basic human needs and assistance? Even those as obvious as fellowship with other Christians. Does the Church really need to be for us OR them?
I am amazed you telling us about the “kind” of people you would like attending your church. Understanding Maslow’a hierarchy of needs, people must first have their needs met before they are in a position to be able to give. I understand your statement as you are looking for “plug & play” members to benefit your organization. A very provincial thought process as well as an exclusionary attitude.
Mike
>But those coming to church should not be coming as consumers, desiring for their own needs to be met in their itches to be scratched.
Like it or not, visitors are coming to your church as consumers. They have a certain set of expectations, needs, desires, and wants. The perception that those expectations, needs, desires, and wants will be satisfied, has everything to do with a repeat visit.
Theology has virtually nothing to do with repeat visits.
Dan, actually we are supposed to woo people. Christ came for his bride, I don’t know about you but a good groom does anything for his bride.
What is more, Christ did come to serve; he came to serve the downtrodden, the sick and the needy, the widows and the orphans, the lost and forsaken. The church exists to serve, Christ did not demand that everyone come and kiss his feet, he washed theirs.
The most important function of the church is to spread the gospel, this is the very salvation of souls. That was the commission we were given
Was Zacheaus eager to give, eager to serve and hungry for Gods word? Not until after he met Jesus.
“Hope that comment doesn’t come off as grumpy, but I just think that, for the most part, American Evangelicalism has very wrong view of church attendance. The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve…”
Oh, it does.
And I feel like you invalidated your own comment with that last line. This is how it sounds to me: “We’re not going to serve others because Jesus came to serve, not be served.”
Let me just add my 2 cents. We have been searching for a church home for years. We fervently have been searching. We live in a small community and have visited virtually all of the churches within our area. Even branching outside of our religion. I wish dirty trash cans or stained pews were the things that drove us away. I dont even notice such things! I look for a genuine love for others and a heart for serving our Lord. For by serving others.. we serve Him. We have been tailgated all the way to church then cursed out in the parking lot by a long standing member because our teenage son was driving under the posted speed limit. I felt my face burn thru that entire church service. We never returned. We have sat in bible study classes week after week with no one speaking so much as a “hello” to us. We have visited churches that had no program of worship. They fly by the seat of their pants. Leaving us visitors in the dark. Wondering is this the sermon? Is this the invitation? Is the service over? Its embarassing. Most of all… most of all.. churches make no effort to visit people anymore. People who are new to a community would love someone (anyone) to show up, give them some cookies and say WE are here for you. Someone cares. You have children? I would love to introduce them to our youth pastor! We have exciting things going on and would love for you to be a part of it. And also.. ask them if there is anything you can pray with them about. I would guess alot of people coming to church may have needs!! They arent coming to examine your pews and garbage cans. They are in pain. They need the love of the Lord shown upon them. And church members…. guess how that happens?! Y-O-U. Church is not a country club. It can be dirty, stained, have small parking spaces, heck.. it can be in a barn. People will be saved because they heard the gospel. And you showed Gods grace and love to them. Keep that in mind. Salvation should be #1 on your priority list. Forget all that other.
Seriously – MOVE to a location that the word is being taught – we moved 14 hours to our present location. Have been in the same church for over 19 years. The service continues to improve – are they perfect NO – are the people perfect NO – am I perfect NO. But please find a place where you can worship.
Spot on, Tina. I couldn’t have put it better myself, and I’m glad I didn’t have to try!
I attended a church for the first time years ago and never went back.
Reason was because members there were very nosy and quite rude!
Where do you work?
Do you get paid well?
Why didn’t your husband come?
What kind of children do you have?
I felt terribly offended by these sort of questions.
What did any of that have to do with why I was there?
I am curious how many of the commenters here are non believers or those who are looking for the Burger King- have it your way or I am out of here folks?
I completely agree with the website comment. We move frequently, and I often do a Google search for local churches, and then pull up their website. It never ceases to amaze me how many churches don’t provide address or service times! It’s so frustrating! Most of the time, their phone number is listed, with a recording with service times, but no address. Then I have to start the search all over again. If I’m not from the area, how am I supposed to find the church without the address?
Another pet peeve of mine is a poor choir. There’s nothing worse than an off key choir during a church service! I can tolerate a lot of other things if there’s a good choir or soloist to listen to.
I agree with the first response! I’ve attended churches all my life and still cringe. It can be very uncomfortable for introverts. Sometimes I’ve been late on purpose to avoid the forced friendliness and physical contact with strangers – especially during cold and flu season. I feel sorry for first-time guests who are not expecting that.
Introverts unite!
Thom, can we unite separately? We’ll be united in our choice to go home individually and not force conversation with people we don’t know.
Yet if we don’t greet visitors, that can be very offensive to extroverts. I’m something of an introvert, but I don’t like to attend churches where people don’t speak to me and make me feel welcome. I ask again, what is the church supposed to do? Be less friendly and welcoming?
I’ve asked that question previously, and the only response I received was a series of attacks on my motives. That pretty much proves my point.
I went to a church that was pretty big, solid theological basis, most of the congregation was my age-group, and really no reason to leave that church except for one thing, I could never connect. Sure members would be social before and after service, but they would clique into groups and would not address those they did not know. A simple “Hello!” while walking by from a member or two would’ve gone a long way. Then there was the mandatory greeting time, which just felt so unbearably forced, and I made no new friends through this either. I went to that church for a year and still felt like a visitor by the end.
Now I know that their philosophy was to make connections through small groups (or whatever you want to call them) and not through church services, but there was no clear path to get into one.
Basically what made me leave that church and find a new one was that as much as I’d try, I actually couldn’t join it.
The fix I would suggest for this church?
1) Ditch greet time, just get on with the service
2) Encourage your ushers to not only greet new faces, but if they see those new faces again try to actually get to know these newcomers, but if the newcomer doesn’t seem interested in talking, don’t bother them too much.
3) Ushers should direct newcomers where to go for getting more involved in the church.
Having small group leaders be ushers may be a good idea, since you can have these people meeting and greeting newcomers directly inviting them to their small group. That was if a newcomer wishes to join, they already have a friend instead of just hanging out with a bunch of strangers (which most people would not do).
Don’t forget a parking lot with craters, holes and weeds all over.
Poor design of the church where the visitor must enter thru the side door that empties directly into the side of sanctuary where everyone turns and looks.
Pastor that is too busy to say hi and leaves quickly after the service.
Pastor who the visitor thinks “why is he yelling at me”
Church member notices your political bumper sticker and says “you probably won’t fit in here.”
Good additions. Thanks.
It’s not that I don’t want to participate in a meaningless, obligatory greeting; it’s just that I don’t want to participate in a meaningless and obligatory greeting.
That’s funny.
I’m really surprised by no.1… And it seems to conflict with no. 2.
Can you share your numbers?
Do you think your respondents are primarily believers? If so, what does this say about their friendliness?
My numbers are a non-scientific Twitter poll with 143 respondents. Of those, 38 responded with number one. The first two do not conflict. Friendliness and a requested stand up and greet are not necessarily synonymous. And I think a number of the respondents are introverts.
I wonder if how a ‘stand up and greet’ is conducted makes a difference in the way people perceive it. I hate having to stand up solo and feeling conspicuous. I don’t at all mind if everybody is standing and saying hello to those in close proximity.
Regarding the issues that are related to ‘presentation’ – whether of the facilities or the interaction styles of people – I can’t help but think of the Tabernacle. Back in the day, God really wanted his people to built and maintain the place in which acts of worship took place with special care. I don’t think focusing on the ‘right things’ and keeping the facility in which we gather in good order are mutually exclusive concepts. In our homes, most of us like friendly family members *and* trash cans that get emptied on a regular basis.
The thing that stands out to me in reading these comments can be boiled down to one statement: You can’t please everyone. Some appreciate a meet and greet, some loathe it. Some appreciate a welcoming parking spot reserved for them, others prefer the anonymity of parking in the back. Some are offended that the plate for the offering was passed to them, but I’ll bet there are others who would say, ‘I am commanded by God to give, and that church didn’t allow me to have the opportunity!” if the plate was not passed to them.
In a nutshell… sincere members and a welcoming facility should help most visitors feel welcome. If not, it may simply be that they’re a better fit with another body of believers. For those of us in smaller towns with fewer options that match up with our doctrine, worshiping in a place that, from an ‘atmosphere’ position, isn’t a perfect match, is an opportunity to practice grace towards others, and / or have a positive influence by becoming part of that congregation.
What has become “stand up and greet (aka “holy commotion”) was originally an opportunity to make peace with one’s brethren prior to approaching the altar for the eucharist. Given the degree of dirty interpersonal politics in the church, I wish we’d return to the original intent. Having visited many churches, I find the phoniness of the modern practice more an exercise in empty ritualism than a Tridentine mass.
>>1: Having a stand up and greet one another time in the worship service.
>>2: Unfriendly church members.
>I’m really surprised by no.1… And it seems to conflict with no. 2.
Assuming that “stand up and greet” means having the visitors stand up during the service, then the unfriendliness is emphasized when nobody says anything to the visitor after the service is over. If you really want to impress visitors with your unfriendliness, have somebody stage whisper: “You need to stand up, because you are a visitor”.
If the “stand up and greet” means “Passing the Peace”, then the visitor may not know what is going on. It requires a degree of spiritual maturity to “Pass the Peace”, without it seeming forced, or an affection, or otherwise insincere. Also observe how the congregation performs “Passing the Peace”. It is not uncommon for visitors to be greeted only by those in the pew next to them, but members be greeted by people in the pews in front of, behind, and on either side of them. A distinction that emphasizes that the visitor is not one of them. Also observe congregation behaviour after the service. How many people talk with the visitor? Exclude the people in the information desk from that number.
To really emphasize how unfriendly the church is towards visitors, have the preacher talk to somebody else, whilst shaking hands with the visitor. Better still, arrange things so that the preacher shakes hands with the members, but not the visitors.
However, I’m of the opinion that the more common situation is that either #1 is true, or #2 is true, than that both are true.
Jim, as an introvert I will admit that the mid-service stand-up-and-greet-people thing (whatever you want to call it) is awkward for me even if I’ve been at that church for years. It’s not that I’m not a friendly person and don’t want to shake your hand. It just seems very awkward and contrived–from the point of view of an introvert. Furthermore, as an introverted first time guest, this moment can be extremely stressful–even if everyone you meet is very friendly and sincere.
Excellent article Thom.
I also want to agree on the lack of parking and a parking lot director. Our church has a dire shortage of handicap parking. The overflow fills the visitors spots. It is really sad how many senior Pastors overlook the facilities and preach every week about bringing in visitors.
Great insight, Russ.
Thanks, Thom. Good feedback. Also was surprised by #1- and concerned, since we do that here! 🙂 You already answered one question I had- the number of respondents. The other question I have- where did you get the list of individuals you tweeted for your poll?
The respondents came from a question I tweeted. Some also responded on Facebook.
We’ve done the stand up and greet for the past 10 years and grown every year as a church. It is more than likely driving away second time guests, but if interaction and connection is a core value of our culture, perhaps is an immediate weeding out process? I’m not disagreeing with you or the respondents, but every church has their non-negotiables I would guess. Great list btw. Our church needs more signs and an information center. Thanks for the article.
I am at that place where my family is looking for a Church and have been for the last few years. Honestly I just do not know what to expected from a church. What should I be looking for. Most of them I have felt out of place not knowing where to park or where to get more information. How we can be the newest people there stand by our self in the middle of the church member after church services and no one talks to us. The other thing I found was how boring service is when pastor are like that boring professor that teach word for word in the book. Take the stories of the Bible and grind to life through stories that we are experiance now. The last thing I am a big researcher and I visit the churchs website and read it in detail, it should be layed out easy and fit the membership you want to come to your church, I feel most want people in there 50’s and older as new members only. As a young family I want excitement and energy from my church. Thank you Thom for all the great information. Tim
Good stuff, Tim. Thanks.
WHY are you going to church? If it is to worship God – then pray that God will send you to a church where the word is preached. If it does not square with the BIBLE – then find a church where the word is preached.
Is #1 referring more to a time of greeting when visitors are specifically called out or anytime of greeting. We do a general time of greeting for people to say hi to each other and the kids to be dismissed to kids church but don’t single visitors out in anyway.
The first response was to any type of greeting where people are asked to stand up.
@ Dr. Rainer: Yes, that’s pretty much how I took it. Judging from the replies on this article, it seems to me this is one of those areas where we can’t please everyone. If we have the “meet and greet” people will think we’re being too forward. If we don’t have it, people will think we’re cold and unfriendly. Personally, I’d rather have people think my church is too loving and friendly rather than the other way around.
Being a USAF family, we have searched for churches many times over the last 18 years. Oh, the stories I could tell!
We do not mind the stand up, meet and greet at all, as long as church members actually greet us. Many times we have stood in a church, where it is obvious that we are the only visitors present, and had no one greet us. It is a bit like crashing a family reunion at that point. Even if the members do not want to inundate a visitor with all members, there should be a hand full of people designated to greet him or her.
When we move into a new area, we start researching websites as soon as we find out. I have found that many times webpages do not correlate with what is really going on at a church. Many times the sites are drawn with the pastor’s vision in mind but no one seems to have shared that vision with the members.
Facilities matter. Not whether you have $10,000 one room church(just visited one of those here in Jersey) or a multimillion dollar church, but whether the building is clean, well-keep and up to date. It matters because it tells a visitor whether the membership cares about their church or not. And it indicates whether or not the people strive for excellence as God commands. If it’s Christian, it should be better!
I have been a believer for almost 30 years and these things turn me off each time I encounter them. But, we still give the church a chance. Several times we have walked into a transition phase of a church and have stayed for years to help new leadership build a church that honors God.
The unbeliever will likely not do that. They will see substandard conditions and move on. Is it right, of course not! But, why do we expect unsaved people to act like Christians!
Boring sermons, we always give the preacher a chance. The problem many times is that all of the negatives leading up to the sermon tend to make it difficult to concentrate. Still, if a pastor delivers a message based on the Word of God then it is a blessing.
Again, I have the benefit of the Holy Spirit to decern whether or not a church is where God wants us. A lost person does not have that.
I’ve said this for many years, if I was a lost person I would not seek a church based on what I have seen over the years. It is a sad statement, but it is true!
That is very helpful information, Torie. Thank you.
I wonder how many lost people actually pursue finding a church home. Personally, I was saved through a personal friendship and then sought out a church home.
I was also a military wife and struggled with many of the mentioned issues in the article, especially the stand up and greet those around me. Yes, even military wives can be introverts in spite of being forced to go out of their comfort zone to welcome new military families. If I had not personally experienced the “you’re sitting in my seat” I NEVER would have believed someone who claimed to be a Christian could do such a thing.
I response to the consumer mentality, I think many of us who are saved aren’t necessarily looking for someone to “bend over backwards” to serve us. I am looking for signs of the living Lord working and moving within a congregation and desire to hear the Truth from the Bible being taught and how the people are living out that Truth. I usually visit a church a minimum of three times before deciding anything. Also having the gift of discernment, I believe that I can tell the difference between people who are truly disingenuous or those who, like me, are truly introverts going way out of their comfort zone to say hello to a stranger.
Thanks for this forum!
Excellent points, Tiffany. Thank you.
As a (retired) military family, i agree completely with what you say!
“Many times we have stood in a church, where it is obvious that we are the only visitors present, and had no one greet us.”
Now that IS a legitimate complaint! If you’re going to do a “meet and greet”, make sure you’re reaching out to the visitors. Otherwise you’ll come across as a clique.
Having just recently moved to new town I did a lot of church searching. One church I almost left in frustration because I looked for twenty minutes for the sanctuary. I ask directions and people pointed vaguely to another building. In another the preacher stood in the pulpit and told stories. I couldn’t even figure out what verses he was preaching on. The church I’m going to now has awesome sermons and music and that over came the initial embarrassment of first time guests having to raise their hand. Also the people were friendly and ask if you needed help finding anything.
Thanks, Sommer.
I think it’s important to deliberatly search for visitors and go our of our way to make them feel welcome, even if it means getting to our lifegroup late. My wife and I work in our church’s cafe and we often see people sitting or standing around that are obviously first time visitors. We will either approach them ourselves or ask another member or couple to welcome them. Our daughter and son-in-law live in Pennsylvania. They attend a conservative Christian church. We have visited this church several times when we were at their house and not once has anyone approached us to welcome us or ask us if we were new. I can only imagine how people visiting our church feel when they are not made to feel welcome.
May your tribe increase, Doyle!
I like the greeting part of service. It might also be first on a list of why visitors come back poll.
True. It looks to be 50-50. So it likely only drives half the guests away . . . unless one family member doesn’t like it.
As a pastor, I visit other churches when I have vacation time… and have experienced numbers 1,2,3,5,8,and 9. And having had young children through all 18 years of my pastorate, number 3 is HUGE!
As for number 9, my first Sunday as new pastor at one congregation the leaders and I had decided to let me sit with my family until before the message so I could just see how they did things like prayer time, offering, etc. One guy came up and told me I was sitting in his pew. I laughed because I thought he was kidding! He ended up sitting in the pew ahead of us. Mid-way through the service I was introduced and, months later, he shared that he had been really upset but at that moment he wanted to slide under the pews! We went on to be good friends. If I weren’t the pastor there, I probably wouldn’t have gone back.
That’s funny in a sad kind of way.
It would be interesting to see a poll what drew people back to a church after the first time and to eventually get involved.
Excellent idea, Allen. I’ll plan to do that.
We had a similar situation:
And in one very sad but NON-apocryphal story, we arrived early to a new church (with a dwindling and aging population) for a service after traveling a good ways. We stood around in the foyer — where it was quite obvious that we were new there, being younger and strangers to this small congregation! —- found our way to the bathrooms, studied the signs and the Missions Board and the pamphlets and the other bulletin boards … all with not one person greeting us, as they stood around with coffee and chatted.
After the service, one older man came over to us and exclaimed, “Well, i saw you standing there before the service! If I’d known you were the Preacher today, i’d have come over and greeted you!”
This was said with perfectly straight face. He was not joking.
And they wondered why their church was declining??
Incredible. Just incredible.
“Crashing a family reunion” is the perfect description of our last church. The only person who greeted us the first few visits was the pastor’s spouse. It was weeks until anyone else acknowledged us. We stayed for the benefit of our youngest (teen) child. But after years of sharing our home, and volunteering for some major projects (and being turned down when we volunteered for others), and doing work for the church that no one else wanted to do, we moved on and found that…nobody cared. They still had their core group and that was what mattered to them. The pastor didn’t say anything to us until 3 months after our last attendance. Not one of the members said anything to us until a y-e-a-r after our last attendance. I hate stand up and greets too (fake sums it up for me), but no greeting or interest shown is a clue as well, that maybe a church doesn’t want or need new people.
Ouch!
We visited a church where the nursery director told us, as first time visitors, that all parents are required to work the nursery once a month. I don’t like (other people’s) kids – I taught high school and college. My gifts are suited in serving those ages, and in music ministry. We left after Sunday School.
First time guests told that had to work in the nursery? Wow!
I’m a new pastor of a small church in a small NWern town. While I agree with the list and do my best to ensure we’re perceived as tidy, clean, and organized, I also agree with Dan Kreider: we’re not a business who aims to get as many people through our doors as humanly possible. We are a group of “called out ones” who assemble for fellowship and corporate worship. My focus on Sundays is to tend to my sheep; not tend to immature church shoppers and hoppers. Now, to be clear, I always go out of my way to warmly welcome new visitors and hope that God will grow our church numerically, but I can’t allow the retention of visitors to be the priority. Within minutes, I can tell if a visitor is a church shopper or a honest, well-intended seeker. The elders and I are called to shepherd the sheep in our midst (1 Pet 5:1-3), not provide tangible wants and aesthetic appeal for unbelievers and fickle consumers seeking non-essential, unnecessary preferences. Do your best to be presentable and courteous, but that can’t be the priority. That’s not how Christ builds His church. Plus, people should be reasonable to know that churches, especially small single-staffed churches, survive based on volunteer service. If the old lady who faithfully cleans and stocks the church gets sick or is out of town, some things may not get done. If a church hopper judges our church and doesn’t come back because of a full garage can or messy carpet, then that’s OK. Our parking lot isn’t huge. Therefore, the last thing I want are spots reserved for visitors when my elderly servants need them. I am vehemently against visitor parking because I would rather the elderly saints who have faithfully served Christ’s church for decades have reserved parking than the 20-something year old guy that could just as easy park on the street or at the end of the lot because he’s late. Church leaders who neglect the care of their faithful servants at the expense of attracting new people should be ashamed of themselves.
I’m surprised that the style of preaching didn’t make the list. Many genuine Christians I’ve spoken to in my area want a church that preaches expositionally (verse-by-verse), yet still expects a well-oiled youth ministry…among many other non-essential wants. Sadly.
3 John:”Dear friend, you are faithful in what you are doing for the brothers and sisters, even though they are strangers to you. 6They have told the church about your love. Please send them on their way in a manner that honors God. 7It was for the sake of the Name that they went out, receiving no help from the pagans. 8We ought therefore to show hospitality to such people so that we may work together for the truth. 9I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not welcome us.”
Huh?
I’m no where near an introvert but the most awkward part of the service for me is the greet your neighbors…one church we attended had a 5 good minutes of meeting those sitting around you…our family who was very new to the church called it 5 awkward minutes. I just don’t understand how shaking a strangers hand makes for community?! Honestly I’d rather not!
And now the non-introverts unite! Thanks, Denise.
Greeting one another, or (liturgically speaking) “passing the peace of Christ,” is not for community-building and should not last 5 min. That really IS awkward and ridiculous. It should last 60 seconds and simply be an opportunity to greet / welcome one another in the name of the Lord….not chit-chat, make friends, make lunch plans, discuss the big game, etc.
Biblically, it could be a way of following Jesus’ instructions in Matt 5, about being reconciled before worship / making sacrifice; this is why in liturgical services it typically occurs right before communion.
Thank you. I’m part of worship planning for my church. Our passing of the Peace has gotten so out of hand. I’m not sure we’ve gotten up to the five minute mark but we are close. We’ve actually had visitors leave because they thought church was over at that point. The ushers wander around and get lost so that when the offertory begins I’ve got no one to receive it. Folks mill about chatting each other up.
We’ve tried some education opportunities, announcements, and articles but the battle rages on.
>We’ve tried some education opportunities, announcements, and articles but the battle rages on.
Either drop “Passing the Peace” in its entirety, or else re-introduce the entire liturgical service that it was swiped from, without updating, modifying, or changing any of the vocabulary.
Hello,
Good article. A couple of questions. What was the size of your raw data set? What amount of time was this survey active and open?
Kurt –
Read the introduction to the article and comments. It was a non-scientific open-end Twitter poll. Thanks.
I agree with the entire list! We have been active members for years, but have recently decided that God is leading us to serve in another church. This is the first time in years we have experienced being a “first time visitor.” Many of the issues mentioned made us feel very uncomfortable or sent the message of I don’t care.
People can complain about these things and they are not important, but they are! People have to be at ease before you can discuss the Gospel message with them. If they arrive frustrated because it took them a long time to find a parking spot, no assistance from church members to find the nursery or sanctuary, or etc the message could never reach the heart.
I think it is important for pastors, staff, and active church members to visit other churches periodically to remember what it is like to be a first time visitor.
Thanks, Michael.
Tagging onto the responses about children’s facilities, info centers, and signage, I’ve also experienced children’s check-processes that take horrendously long, and have made me late for the service, even when I’ve arrived 10-15 min early. This is a real problem, even if your facilities and signage are first rate. Let me drop my kids off and find a seat in the sanctuary; nothing worse that walking in late as a first-time visitor who doesn’t know anybody and already feels self-conscious about any number of things.
Also, in defense of the “greeting time,” or “passing the peace of Christ,” this is, in my opinion, an essential act of worship. If guests are put off by it, it’s either being done poorly / awkwardly, or they’re just looking for something to pick about. I am in favor of doing what we do with unchurched guests in mind, but not at the expense or neglect of essential elements of worship.
To this day I continue to dread the mid-service “stand up and greet the person next to you” time. I’m guessing extroverts and old-timers just don’t get how unhelpful of a practice it is.
You are not alone, Denise.
On the other hand, have you ever gone up to a stranger and assumed they were a guest when in fact they had been attending for several months? how did THAT go? The only way we can know is to have them “admit” they are there for the first time. When they take that risk, we reward them with a coupon for free coffee, a free CD of a recent service and a meet and greet with the Senior Pastor after the service. Most of them come back. I have been attending for 17 years and have yet to see one service that did not have at least one person giving their life to Jesus.
My standard line is, “I haven’t had a chance to meet you yet. Are you new here, or have you been here for a while?” And once we chat, i warn them that i probably have to ask their names again sometime, because i just don’t remember so well!
That’s good.
At least one person getting saved every Sunday for the past 17 years! That is remarkable. Your church should be setting all kinds of attendance records. Surely you didn’t mean that?
Hi,
Thanks for some great points. DEFINITLEY things to think about. For a lot of people visiting church for the first time it is a HUGE step. They already feel as though they “won’t belong.” So the only offense we should seek to give is the gospel itself.
I was really shocked by #1 though. In our church, small country church, the greeting time is not a meaningless, obligatory greeting…. Rather people seem to have full fledged conversations!!!! It’s a unique situation. As the pastor, I wish it WAS “quick and meaningless” as many times I’m at the pulpit waiting to start the sermon!!!! But seriously each church should consider these and see in our context where we can improve. Thanks!
Thanks, Michael.
Are these Christians looking for a church to serve in or unsaved individuals. I wouldn’t imagine a broken sinner would care about such things and a Christian with such sensitivities would be concerning. I’m for excellence and reasonable sensitivity, but wow.
If you are looking for a blessing when going through the front doors of Gods house you are going to receive one .The issues of all the other statements made here on this website God will take care of if you put him first . You will know when that church you visit will be the perfect one for you because Gods love will be felt before you decide ,the Holy Spirit will be your helper, and you will feel comfortable in your decision .God bless each one that is looking for a home Church I pray The Lord will lay it upon your heart to seek the best one for you to serve in .
The preacher’s wife or anyone for that fact calling a special needs child a ‘retard’. My eldest daughter is autistic and the preacher’s wife told me very loudly (I was seven months pregnant as well), that my family wasn’t welcome because she didn’t want my retard spreading her disease.
That is one of the cruelest comments I’ve ever heard. I am so sorry.
Whoa! I’d have to wonder if those people need a good dose of salvation. I’m sorry you went through that, but I hope you understand not all churches are like that.
I’m very very sorry someone was so cruel to you. I’m a pastor’s wife and would consider it a privilege to serve your child and I know others in our church would as well. I just prayed for you that God would give you a loving church family that would meet the needs of your family.
I went to a church during Christmas season because one of my professors’ husband wAs the minister. The first thing anyone said was “take these offering envelopes because you will need them.” SERIOUSLY? I stayed anyway because I wanted to hear the man. Turns out he on vacation and their elder did the message. Pure disappointment.
Another “ouch.” Thanks.
I’m a little concerned with a few comments here. The church, being referred to here as a building where people gather to worship God, is not a club like a fraternity where you are either accepted or not. There should not be a “weeding out” process or an acceptable list of rules and requirements for membership. Is is necessary to have a fancy building with reserved parking? No. Perhaps, Thom, you may be able to gather a poll from your responses on this thread to get a clearly picture of why people do not return to certain churches.
If leading unbelievers to CHRIST isn’t a churches first priority, then that’s the last place I want to be! Before letting a guest walk out the door someone in that church should know if they are Christians looking for a home church or an unbeliever searching for CHRIST! It could very well be that persons last chance! Watch out people! JESUS IS WATCHING! Bending over backwards? JESUS died for you! If I come off as a little piffed, you bet ya!
Cathy, I agree, A church can either reach people for Christ and disciple them, or “pamper the Pharisees” It can’t do both effectively. Jesus couldn’t do it – why do we think we are better than Him?
Amen, Alan Woods, Amen!
I read all the comments, but this one I have to reply to. Are you going to meet them at the door and ask if they are Christians or not?
We don’t have ushers who meet and greet but as the Bishop’s wife, when I see first time visitors, I introduce myself and ask if I can help tell them where the different classrooms and restrooms are. We are not a small church, nor are we a mega-church. I think our average attendance is about 200. So I know the members. We don’t do the meet and greet during services, but we certainly talk to them as they come in the door and after services. We had a young woman this Sunday say that she came back because she was made to feel a part of the group during her first visit.
1, 3, 8, and 10 are huge for me. 1, in my opinion, is really important, especially during cold and flu season. Also, any time of year, a person may have warts on their hands (not to mention other viruses and bacteria). I have no problem shaking hands with people I know, but I don’t like being socially obliged to shake hands with a large number people I have never met before. I like the option to wave and/or nod respectfully. 3 is important, but I have a very low threshold for uncleanliness when it comes to babies and toddlers. In addition to basic cleanliness, antique and vintage toys and furniture are not acceptable in toddlers’ areas. Things were not manufactured to the same standards years ago as they are today. I would never let my son play in an area, or with items appearing to be 30+ years old because of the potential that those area/items might contain lead. I keep my son with me in church for the service, so 8 is big, too. Music, of any kind, helps with 8. 10 — the only thing I have to say about 10 is basically what I said for 3: if it is not safe for children, my child won’t be there. The whole church should be clean and safe for children, and if it is not, then the priorities of that congregation are way too different from my own to be reconciled.
I understand that not every church has it in the budget to undergo renovation, but if a church experiences a low retention of experimental congregants, and there are obvious issues (such as flaking paint, or dirty bathrooms, etc.) the reason for low retention should be obvious, too.
Good points, AE.
You should look up Tim Hawkins’ hand sanitizer bit on youtube.
As an “introvert”, I also find the “stand up and greet” segment thrown into the middle of the opening part of the service to be very uncomfortable. There is plenty of time to meet and greet prior to the service. However, it is very disheartening to have attended a church for many months, every Sunday, and then be greeted by someone as if I were a first time visitor. Was I invisible? I had seen those people at each service.
Oh the other hand (pun intended!), an elderly woman at a church I attended said that the only time during the week that she was touched by another person was during the passing of the peace.
That is so sad. But I meet other folks who attend a church regularly, and yet do not get any kind of support from their church body outside of posted meeting times. How is that church? Also, in response to the meet and greet sessions, I’m an introvert, but I like them. It would be terribly uncomfortable though, if you were a visitor and no one bothered to chat with you during that time. And if shaking hands (or hugging, or whatever other physical greeting a church might use) is personally uncomfortable for someone, then they shouldn’t feel compelled to do so. I won’t say that no church would have a problem with that–how could I, after reading some of these truly shocking stories about church behaviour–but I will say that if a church does have a problem with it, then they are not what I would call a church. Not that I have a strong opinion, or anything… 😉
There may be time before the service for meeting and greeting but in my experience with this it is only toward friends. I have come early to services before and then sat there (as a new visitor) for 10-15 mintues with no one coming up to talk to me.
Last week I sat down in the middle of a pew and it started filling up around me. A group of college aged people filled up my left side and sat right next to me but never said hi or anything (and I am just past college age). They were too busy chatting with their friends about the weekend etc to greet someone who was obviously sitting by themselves.
My reasons for not returning to a church as a visitor are more focused on what is being taught then the cleanliness of the bathroom or availability of visitor parking. Do I believe the same as what the church believes, Do I agree with their mission statement etc. I am not going to go back to a church that has large areas where my beliefs are different.
The, ” this is my seat,” still goes on today. Our Pastors parents came to church one Sunday and were told this seat was saved. Our Pastor has preached it from the pulpit several times and it still goes on. When people move past church being a social gathering and to a place for worship and decipleship along with a place for the lost to be saved, the church, cannot function as a country club and reach the lost at the same time. I pray weekly for us all to leave the doors of the church changed! Some are set in their ways and their hearts gave grown cold to everyone but themselves. Foreign missions make them mad, and they say we should do missions locally, but when you do only a few show up to help. Not the ones complaining. Its a heart issue. One that we don’t see in overseas missions. We just keep praying for changed hearts and for God to be Glorified as we love on this church. Love, a Pastors wife 🙂
Well said, Liz.
I have visited many, many churches both in the US and abroad. The absolute friendliest, most accepting church church I’ve EVER visited was an Amish-Mennonite church. I was totally taken by surprise. I did not dress like them, did not know their “ways” (church culture), etc. I was greeted warmly, invited to sit with one of the families, they made sure I knew which SS class to attend, they made sure I had a hymnal for singing and was invited to lunch after church. Greeted by many, welcomed by all. Have not seen anything like it before nor since. The presence of the Lord was surely in that place — not because of their dress or church culture — but because they were genuine. I could not join their church but would attend there in heart beat. (I live in a different state.) Churches I have attended in my current location leave much to be desired. Most are, at the least, very “clannish” and one must work at being accepted.
Fascinating! Thanks, Carolyn.
Sermons on politics, either right or left leaning.
When I visit my daughter I attend the church where she attends. It is a church with 3 (three) Sunday morning services. They also have a short stand and greet. It appears to me that even the members wouldn’t know whether I am a member or visitor as we don’t always attend the same service time. The method this church uses is with a card in their bulletin which has a check off as to whether this is your first time or other to a visit to this church. Another question asked on the card is whether you want to meet with a church counselor or a pastor plus also asking for other info. The pastor speaking during that service announces and explains about their ” Try Four ” before committing to return or decide to visit elsewhere.
My home church simply has the pastor to welcome visitors and announce that there are visitor cards on the back of the pew in front them and requests they please fill one out. This works very well for us.
Mitch
I’m a little puzzled by #1 and #2. If a church doesn’t have a time for welcoming visitors, won’t they come across as unfriendly? I’d rather have my church be seen as too friendly and too welcoming, rather than cold and snobbish.
Ken, there’s a difference between being friendly and putting a spotlight on visitors in a service so everyone knows they’re there.
Maybe so, but I’d rather err on the side of friendliness. In other words, I would rather have visitors think we’re too friendly than too snobbish.
The congregation that I’m attending now doesn’t do the meet and greet during the worship service but they are the most friendly, welcoming group of people I’ve ever encountered at church. There’s a lot of visiting both before and after services, sometimes to the point that whoever is in charge of locking up has to gently move people outside. We keep our kids with us in service as well and there’s a cry room if someone needs to step in there with an unhappy child.
One thing, to me, that’s off-putting for a visitor is age/sex segregation of Sunday school classes. I’ve found myself feeling stuck in my Sunday school class which makes me not want to attend. Where I attend now just has two adult Sunday school classes. They’re big, you can switch back and forth, and it’s a wide variety of people, which to me is good for discussion.
I can tell stories of people who were put off by classes that were not divided up according to age and gender. Church growth experts tell us people like being with others who are their own age, and men and women often feel freer to discuss certain subjects when they’re among people of their own gender. Also, “couples classes” can be a turnoff to people that are single.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying there are two sides to this argument.
after 20 years outside a community of faith I went “church shopping” last year. I went with great skepticism. This list mirrors much of my experience. The “Bad Website” would rank 2nd on my list. And I agree with #1 on this list. Not sure the origins of this tradition, but I still dislike it even now that I am a confirmed member of an Episcopal parish. First time visitors, particularly those who have been outside a community of faith, are looking for reasons to reject, rather than accept on those first visits. My best experience was a congregation where they had one member of the clergy who was looking for new faces and made a “soft” approach.
I would add: crazy theology (like really, really crazy…scared our boys), unworshipful worship, worship leaders who worship themselves, acting like “The Price is Right” and giving away a big box of money in the service (I am NOT joking…horrendous experience), trying to break bread and force-feed our family communion (you can’t make this stuff up, people), asking you to take the offering during your first visit (yes – I assure you I am NOT lying), an auditorium that is so dark you have a difficult time worshipping the “Light of the World,” catty/mean/unskilled ministry leaders, greeters who do not greet, misleading about “what to wear” on your website (saying it’s casual when everyone actually wears suits & dresses), churches that idolize/cult worship their pastor, not being able to get to the information desk because everyone is standing around talking to their friends, spending an entire morning at a church and no one looking at you or speaking to you, high pressure to join, and countless others…
What I’m wondering is, if the people who responded are believers visiting the church, what was their focus? If I have learned correctly, the church is the body of believers. So, if I want to fellowship with other believers and not forsake the assembly, then some of the conditions listed should not be the focus or rain for going to “church”. Yes, we do want to be responsible and be in a place where we aren’t doing harm to others, but some things are preferences. How do believers in third world countries explain to visitors that they have no electricity or nice floors? They gather together because they love God and are there to worship Him. In the end, God will do the judging of our lives. His word convicts. If we use His word to share the truth and if it’s something the church needs to grow in spiritually then God’s word will teach them to do what’s right. “Jesus said to them, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life , no one comes to the Father except through me’.” John 14:6. We don’t have the power to change their hearts, but we are commanded to love one another. So if we’re looking for perfection, we won’t find it in a building or people. It is only Jesus, the perfect sacrifice, who we can look to, because we couldn’t be that perfect sacrifice to save us from our sins. Romans 3:23
Tom, this is a great list, and I will share it with others. Having served as a pastor for 27 years in small and large congregations, I have witnessed and sought to challenge many of these. I still struggle with how to equip/nurture/train folks to strike up conversations with people they don’t know. Some, of course, have a knack or gift for hospitality. But the issue is greater than identifying and guiding them. It’s about how to develop a spirit of hospitality throughout a congregation’s many ministries. I look forward to any feedback.
I’m a new pastor of a small church in a small NWern town. While I agree with the list and do my best to ensure we’re perceived as tidy, clean, and organized, I also agree with Dan Kreider: we’re not a business who aims to get as many people through our doors as humanly possible. We are a group of “called out ones” who assemble for fellowship and corporate worship. My focus on Sundays is to tend to my sheep; not tend to immature church shoppers and hoppers. Now, to be clear, I always go out of my way to warmly welcome new visitors and hope that God will grow our church numerically, but I can’t allow the retention of visitors to be the priority. Within minutes, I can tell if a visitor is a church shopper or a honest, well-intended seeker. The elders and I are called to shepherd the sheep in our midst (1 Pet 5:1-3), not provide tangible wants and aesthetic appeal for unbelievers and fickle consumers seeking non-essential, unnecessary preferences. Do your best to be presentable and courteous, but that can’t be the priority. That’s not how Christ builds His church. Plus, people should be reasonable to know that churches, especially small single-staffed churches, survive based on volunteer service. If the old lady who faithfully cleans and stocks the church gets sick or is out of town, some things may not get done. If a church hopper judges our church and doesn’t come back because of a full garage can or messy carpet, then that’s OK. Our parking lot isn’t huge. Therefore, the last thing I want are spots reserved for visitors when my elderly servants need them. I am vehemently against visitor parking because I would rather the elderly saints who have faithfully served Christ’s church for decades have reserved parking than the 20-something year old guy that could just as easy park on the street or at the end of the lot because he’s late. Church leaders who neglect the care of their faithful servants at the expense of attracting new people should be ashamed of themselves.
I’m surprised that the style of preaching didn’t make the list. Many genuine Christians I’ve spoken to in my area want a church that preaches expositionally (verse-by-verse), yet still expects a well-oiled youth ministry…among many other non-essential wants. Sadly.
I would never consider youth ministry non-essential. Teens are about to go into the world without the constant support structure of their parents guidance and most will drop off church attendance in college unless they have a personal connection to their faith that lives for them outside the structure of their families, something that they want for themselves.
You will not find one single solitary verse in Bible where it mandates a local church to have a youth ministry. Therefore, in that sense, it is indeed very non-essential. Considering 2,000+ years of church history, the youth ministry is a new “essential” to modern day Evangelicalism. Furthermore, a strong argument could be made that the modern day youth movement has done more harm than good in America. You prove that point unintentionally by observing that many youth leave the church when they leave the home.
Karl, I sense your responses come from the unique dynamics of your church and I pray God continually fuels you with his love and wisdom as your nurture the elder members of his kingdom–lovers of Christ who are a testament to Proverbs 22:6. In your words I read a passion for those who bear the beautiful wrinkles of a long life served for Christ. As you serve and honor them, please remember that once a long time ago, they too entered the doors of a church a very first time.
I’ve gotten up and walked out of churches that do the “let’s meet the visitors” thing. I also went to a church once where the pastor said “let’s go around the room and have everyone answer a question so we can get to know each other!” If I’m visiting, I’m checking YOU out, not the other way around.
In other words…you are a consumer. Congratulations.
I’ve moved several times, and I hate the forced meet-and-greet. But let me say I hate this as a member; I do my “visiting” before and after church. As a prospective member, I really don’t want to be “greeted” excessively. Many church members try to “sell” their church as if it were waterless cookware.
I will share a story from my home town. The husband of a very active choir member and dear friend — a prominent member of the community — came to church for the first time in more than 10 or 20 years. During the “forced meet and greet” half the church ran up to him to welcome him. Of course, everyone who really knew this man was horrified and realized that he would never come back. He did come back once more, but it was in his coffin.
Now even as I write this I am aware that other people are desperate for a kind word. They feel that if people don’t come up and greet them that the people are unfriendly or “stuck-up.” I would just suggest trying to be casual and brief in welcoming people and not to be overly aggressive in inviting people back. In other words, just give people space.
Finally, websites are great. I just want to see what the service is like and get a feel of what direction the church is taking. Style of worship is important to most people, so go ahead and let them see the Sunday bulletin with its order of worship as well as the activities of the week.
Oh, and for what it’s worth I don’t think visitors should get a “special” parking space. When I visit a church I really just want to be treated like a member for a day. Please be friendly, but don’t make a fuss!
Right. Don’t ignore people. Don’t overwhelm people. The balance is extremely subjective. Again, the ridiculous expectations of consumerist church shoppers to conform to their expectations instead.
I was shocked to see the greeting time as a deterrent. We have found that many who eventually place membership at our church highlighted that period as a plus. We have always had mixed feelings about our “meet and greet” time, so the result from your survey will give us more to think about. Was there any other feedback associated with that reason?
On the tension between catering to consumerism and “seeking the lost”
Firstly, it is perfectly true that if we want to “seek the lost” we need to be concerned about a non-Christian 1st-time visitor is likely to feel, and we shouldn’t complain if such visitors are stuck in a consumerist mindset.
However…
Secondly, it is also perfectly true that lots of Christians are stuck in the consumeristic mindset, and catering to that mindset in Christians only exacerbates the problem (which is itself a sin problem in the church).
Note that this is a real tension that cannot be resolved by talking about who the church is “intending” to reach. You can say all you want that you “intend” to reach the lost, but the fact of the matter is that these comments sound like they came from self-identifying Christians (they understood theological language but not the local titles; they came after searching for a website and not because a friend invited them). The fact that these complaints *sound* like they are coming from the already-churched who are just comparing their options to decide on a church home is not surprising–the vast majority of church visitors are in this category. (How many people in your church only became Christians some time after their first visit to your church?)
All people (Christian or not) should be treated with hospitality, but when self-proclaimed Christians come into your home rating you and assuming that it’s your job to show them how wonderful you are so as to merit a return visit, we have a problem with hospitality at the guest’s end, and this should be of concern to the church.
Great articles and great discussion in the replies – although sometimes we Christians are so predictable and too often we limit our experience and opinions to our own experience and personality types. Of course “greetings” that go on longer than 45 seconds are too long for most visitors – lost or “found.”
I love how we too often determine”the main reason the church exists…” as if we can ever pin that down to one!!!
And the debate over US church and her marketing versus third world countries…. c’mon, eat your peas or I’ll send them to Africa where kids would love to have them!
This was a good article (non-scientific) but great for consideration and the discussion was everywhere from vibrant to mundane…. Now let’s get off our computers and love our neighbor!!! Or go into all the world and… Or reach out to “the least of these…” Or go cut some firewood!!!!!
Thanks to the author Thom Rainer for staying with this as long as you did…. write to me and help me plant a church!!!!
Over enthusiastic members drew me away from one church. I am not one to feel comfortable in the spotlight and literally everyone in the congregation smelled new blood and cornered me before I could make an exit. It was a small church with 90% retirees in the congregation. A dying church I’m sure they were all excited at the prospect of a new member but it was a bit too much for me. I also find #1 redundant. What is the point of stopping a service to greet people you’ve likely spoken to already before the service began?
My biggest problem with the church is the lack of compassion once you do join a church,members barely saying hello,many geniunely concerned when you are not ok.
Lol i meant to say not genuinely concerned when you are not ok..my biggest thing is when you do become a member,its not as friendly as being a guest.
I am intrigued by #1. Can anyone elaborate on either the scriptural or traditional support for this part of the service?
I know there are a lot of legitimate reasons for first time guests being turned off, but I also know that there are many that look for an excuse not to like a church. People will attend a sporting event, go to the theater, stand in line for hours for concerts, etc. and not judge the event as harshly as they judge church.
Very astute observation, Judy. I agree 100%. Churches and pastors are the recipients of the harshest criticism.
I believe someone named Judy commented that people
will attend movies, concerts, etc…and not judge the event
as strictly as they will a church they are attending for the first time.
You agreed wholeheartedly with her.
First of all, concerts and movies
and sporting events are just that—EVENTS. Joining a church
is not supposed to be an event. No one
expects to attend a professional football game and make
long term friendships and become a member of a community
just because they went
to see a football game (or a movie, or a concert, etc….) But when one attends
a church for the first time, it is usually with hopes of
becoming a part of a “family”…..some of them have been rejected
by their own biological families, and even by society in general.
They (rightly) expect a christian church
to be more welcoming and genuinely friendly than the
average concert-goer would be. I think there should be less emphasis
on phony “greetings” by people that really don’t care (again,
there’s always exceptions to the rule).
Why not emphasize true friendship, care and concern for people that are new
to the church. I’ve heard of some that have sat in a church for years without
making one true friend. I think introverts are more common in churches
than extroverts. Yet often they become the best, most loyal friends
if given a chance. The emphasis should always be on the word of God,
and on worshiping Jesus.
But church is also for fellowship. We are supposed to be encouraging one
another and not worrying about numbers just for the sake of having more
members than the church down the street. I’ve seen so much competition,
jealousy and insecurity in the church. I think Jesus is hurt that so many are
being ignored, stifled and even sabataged in their churches. Again if I go to
a football game I probably won’t care if someone doesn’t make an attempt
to tell me hi (on his own with no prodding); but if I go to a new church,
I might. We are supposed to let our light shine, not so others can admire us
but so that we can magnify our Heavenly Father and glorify Him.
We are supposed to be IN the world, not OF it. Our standards should be
higher in how we treat the newcomers, not equal to.
I agree, too, Judy. Do you remember a gospel song some years ago called “Excuses”? It was a satirical song that talked about the excuses people make for not going to church. Sometimes the excuses were ridiculous and contradictory. I’m reminded of that song every time I read one of these articles about why people don’t go to church.
Although to be fair, at a sporting event, concert, movie, etc. you’re not considering giving the football team, band, or movie producers a mind-blowing amount of authority in your life. You’re not contemplating opening up your most personal feelings and thoughts to them.
You’re just consuming a sporting event, concert, or movie.
Churches *should* be scrutinized more closely than sporting events, concerts, and movies. They’re more important.
It drives me nuts watching people on the ends of the rows (usually long-term members or attenders) force people to step over/by them.
God chose the church as the means to spread the good news of his son Jesus. If we his church don’t show the love of his father as Jesus did at work in a store and to every one we come in contact with . It will not matter how we greet them in a building . For if our salt looses it savor and our light is dimmed there is nothing to draw them in. Be the light church including me to and they will come to the church desiring to have what you have Jesus.
Regular attendees that don’t smile or greet new faces…. and say something like, “I haven’t seen you here before, are you visiting?” If they say yes, “Can I answer any questions for you?” etc. Also, when you have no idea who is speaking, are they the preacher, worship leader, elder, deacon…. who are you!
Yes, a newbie will likely feel quite left-out with an extended greet-your-neighbor time. It’s mainly used by those who’ve known each other for years to catch up on family and community events. An extension of this uncomfortable experience is the preacher or other staff telling the congregation what to say: “Stand up and tell the person behind you, ‘Jesus loves you and so do I!'”
For those who cherish a time of fellowship, but want to prevent awkwardness in guests, a solution would be to have coffee, juice and donuts in the foyer or fellowship room before the service to allow for such.
We have a “coffee hour” after our service for the main meet and greet time. Works well for us and a little less stressful for new people because it gives them an out if they don’t want to stay.
I understand the points given. Yes, we should do our best to accommodate everyone to a degree. Question is, Has this been the mindset throughout all the church age? Or is it only something we do here in America? Based on this article, those saints of God who worshipped underground for centuries, and even today, must have done something wrong. Are we so caught up in ourselves that our needs must be met first before we worship God in church? Are we that self centered in our view to place demands on the church before we walk inside of it? The perspective of many people today are so warped. Sad indeed.
For one who has moved many times for my career, I would agree with most of these.
However the one that still gets me is the fact that some churches never contact a visitor. Twice in the last 4 years I have fill out a card, requested more information, and received nothing in response. Both churches were high on our list of potential churches, but because we didn’t get any kind of contact, we felt we could never invite friends to these churches. We could have forced our way “in”, but weren’t sure others would do that.
I would echo that websites are key…no longer is an opinion formed within minutes of arriving, but with the Information Age, opinions are formed before arriving. This can also be said about presenting the church correctly, not what it wants to be.
Thanks for this great post!
I would also add the extremely loud music with the lyrics that repeat the same words over and over and over again ad nauseam. If we had wanted to go to a loud rock club we would have done so. Church music is not and should not be a performance that honors the performers. Its purpose is to lead the congregation worshipfully into the presence of God.
My wife and I visited a church one Sunday and had to leave after 15 minutes because the music was so loud it hurt my ears. Even today, in my own church, I cannot be in the sanctuary during the music because it is so loud.
I tend to agree with you, but many do not. We’ve had quite a few debates on that subject on Dr. Rainer’s website!
Thank you for sharing this. Interesting items to consider. My family of four left our church home about a year ago. Each of the four of us came to the conclusion for different reasons, but at the same time, that it was time to move on. (Nothing big or ugly or dramatic, just time to move on.) My husband quietly notified the elders of our decision, not wanting to draw the attention of other members or set into motion the obligatory farewell potluck extravaganza. (I guess introverts don’t need the meet and greet or the giant potluck party.) We had been a part of this church family for 10 years, having moved to a new community to help plant and grow this church. I had been employed for awhile by the church, and the entire family served diligently in a number of ministries. We were surprised, then, when only one elders followed up with us, spending a few minutes on the phone with my husband. Not a single person from the leadership contacted me or our two children (ages 21 and 17). I even tried to make an appointment more than once with our pastor. I wanted to let him know we were going and say goodbye and tell him that our time there had been important to us. However, each time, he responded that he was unavailable to meet without telling me when he would be available. I’m not saying I wanted all the pastors and elders and deacons to come running and beg us to stay–not at all. I guess I just thought, if this is the perceived level of apathy we experienced after being such an active part of this church family, what about folks who were there for a little while, flew under the radar, and then moved on? (I should note that a few fellow church members send me little messages from time to time to say we are missed, and I sincerely appreciate their thoughtfulness.)
As we prepare to look for a new faith community with whom to worship, I understand the list you provided. I would add what I am looking for. I want to find a community made up of individuals who genuinely are there to worship, to minister to each other, to find ways to serve souls outside their church, and who want to share all of that with anyone who will join them. I want to find a community that genuinely extends grace and love not only to each other, but also to people with whom they disagree or who may be different from them (Jesus-style). I want to find a community that genuinely communicates that sometimes we find ourselves in a mess, but we’re in this mess together, leaning on God and helping each other along the way. Genuine is a key word here, and is difficult to quantify. But I think folks who are visiting churches have a pretty good sense of the energy and attitude. A warm welcome, forgoing anything that seperates members from visitors (like church-speak or not sharing logistical information clearly), and a kind “Goodbye, hope to see you again” is a good start. But churches must also cultivate a culture of on-going welcome if they want folks to stay.
LP, as a fairly young, new pastor, I’ve already heard people say, “It’s just time to move on.” Would you please elaborate? What does that mean? Before I went into the ministry, the only reason why I left a church was for doctrinal reasons, so I’m curious why you would leave if there’s no controversy or something sinful going on. Also, what did you expect the pastor and elders do say and do? Can you understand how discouraging it may be to a pastor to see a family, who has been very involved since the church’s inception, suddenly up and leave just because they say “It’s just time to move on.” I’m honestly wondering. Thank you. Grace and peace to you.
Hello Karl.
We had planned to look for a different church when our older child graduated from high school. She was deeply involved with her youth group, and it was a very dynamic experience. But most of the youth group graduated when she did, leaving two or three other kids, besides our younger child in middle school and high school. We were hoping to find a more active peer group for our younger one. However, my parents were also members of this church, and my father experienced a health crisis at that time. We felt like it was not the time to leave, as our church community was so supportive, and we were all pulling together for my dad. Unfortunately, although our younger child enjoyed friendships with the other couple of kids who were in his peer group, the church experience did not engage him at a spiritual or cognitive level (and he definitely needs the cognitive challenge as he is extremely gifted and has so many profound questions about life and meaning).
Meanwhile, our older child posted something on Facebook, that while not aggressive, could be considered politically controversial to some conservative Christians. A member of the church (who joined the church about the time our child left for college and did not know her well), messaged her and challenged her in a way that she perceived as attacking. This church member engaged her in a days-long debate about how her political opinion was clearly unchristian and how a Christian really could not have that opinion, even though she kept responding with “I’m really just trying to act like I think Jesus would.”
For the most part, I think my husband was tapped out, as he has such a servant’s heart and almost never said no. For both my husband and I, I would not call it midlife crisis, but I would call it midlife re-evaluation. Why do I believe what I believe? Is it because that’s what I’ve always been taught? (We both grew up in the church.) Or is it because I’ve worked out my own salvation with fear and trembling? Time to take inventory. All four of us perceived an attitude at the church of “the Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it.” Okay, that’s good to a certain extent, but the Bible also gives instruction against wearing fabrics of mixed fibers or covering your head or not covering your head or not allowing women to speak at church. I think we all wanted the conversation that should follow. Let’s delve into understanding the author of the scripture and his target audience and his time. And let’s talk about how we discern which scriptures are “cultural” (not trimming your beard) and which must continue to reverberate through history and around the world (love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself). And can we get someone with a deep knowledge of science and a strong faith to discuss topics like creation without judging if I’m honest to say I’m struggling with what the Bible says here or there. And during this conversation, let’s all please be kind and respectful to each other, knowing that we all love someone (or we certainly should) who somebody at this church feels is not living up to God’s standard.
I’m sorry if I rambled. Sometimes it’s challenging to distill something that feels somewhat complex. Hope this helps.
Blessings,
LP
To answer your question about what I expected…
When I contacted the pastor more than once asking if I could come by his office to talk to him, I guess I expected that he would either say yes or would tell me when he was available. I also work in a service-related field. If someone in my community asks to see me, I make time to meet with them.
Regarding other pastors, the elders, or the deacons, I don’t think I expected anything in particular, as we have not been in the habit of leaving churches unless we were moving. I was just surprised nobody was in touch to say goodbye or ask why we were leaving. And truly, just practically speaking, I think there was a missed opportunity to debrief faithful church family members who may have some insight about the perceived needs and changing dynamics of a family growing up in this emerging generation. I have prayed about contacting the elders, to tell them about our experience, both the decision process that led us to leave and our experience with the church (or lack thereof) upon leaving. I do not believe in laying out complaints unless you have suggestions for solutions, though. It is our perception is that they likely do not want to hear, so I will leave it alone for now.
Know that we were blessed there, and I believe we were a blessing, as well. We served God and people He loves alongside faithful souls. We love our brothers and sisters in this church family. We are not bitter, just a bit confused.
Blessings,
LP
Thanks for elaborating. I can’t judge your pastor because I’m unaware of his amount of free time. He may have to constantly decide who to say ‘no’ to and it makes sense that he wouldn’t want to spend time meeting with folks going out the door for whatever reasons. I can see how it would be discouraging to not get answers to tough questions, but I gotta be honest: I’m continually shocked and dismayed to see “faithful” church people leave their church family just because there isn’t a youth ministry that suits their expectations. That’s an extremely immature reason to leave a church. Forgive my forthrightness, but as a pastor, I could probably care less about hearing feedback from a family who left my church for the reasons you have left. It’s wise of you to just remain silent and move on. I pray that God will lead to to a church where the Word is proclaimed and you can serve and not be served as that’s the example Jesus left for us. Grace to you.
Greeting one another in peace (the “pax) is part of the ancient liturgy (dating back to the early church) and historic protestants and catholics both have practiced this for centuries. I know that modern evangelicals like to think that worship services are all about roping in new visitors but changing the historic liturgy in order to be more seeker friendly is wrong.
I am all for changing other things and I agree with the rest of the list (for the most part) but changing the historic liturgy to be seeker friendly is a mistake.
Our church does the Pax and we have doubled in size over the past year. I am of the opinion that people like churches who know who they are and not churches who are willing to change who they are to be liked. Think about the people you know. Who do you like more? The guy who is confident and knows who he is or the guy who is always asking “what do you want me to be like?”?
I just think that if we claim to be about the greatest mission in the history of the universe, our facilities, service, courtesy, and enthusiasm for said mission ought to be reflected in everything from our parking lot, set design, signage, etc. etc.
Dr. Rainer,
Just curious if there was a particular type of “meet and greet” that was referenced. I’ve seen some that ask members to stand and guests to remain seated. I could see that as very intimidating. In our case, we do a meet and greet, but do not say anything about guests or members….just “say hello to the folks right around you.”
Again….just curious. I always find your posts and insights regarding the unchurched to be tremendously helpful.
Thanks
Rob Pochek
Thanks, Rob. The Twitter poll was open-ended, so the respondents referred to all types of stand and greet.
My family recently left the church we have been attending on and off for over 6 years. It’s the only church my children know but we grew frustrated. It is a great church, VERY secure children’s area and great people. They made some changes that just made me question what a church should be. The children’s programing on Wednesday has went from “we want everyone!” to “you have to register and we only take a certain amount of kids.” The music gets louder and louder every week and it feels like a concert instead of praise time. I miss being part of a small church but finding a small church is also hard in our area, they are all becoming big. We haven’t been in months and no one has reached out to see if we are okay or ask why we haven’t been there. I also do not agree with the meet and greet during service, not everyone is comfortable with it. Other then that, visitors love our church because they have a place for visitors to get info, people to greet them, very clean, check in for kiddos, coffee bars,etc… It’s a church focused on visitors and sometimes I think regular attenders just get lost.
“It’s a church focused on visitors and sometimes I think regular attenders just get lost.” Jessica, this is exactly the danger of churches succumbing to the seeker-oriented mindset. Faithful members and attenders get neglected at the expense of drawing new people. I’m sorry you’ve experienced this. I pray that God will lead you to a church that has a shepherd after God’s own heart (Jer 3:15). Grace and peace.
Karl, I have read this and several other of your comments, and with all due respect, in the love of Jesus I wanted to comment that I’m more than just a little concerned about some of the things you say, since they don’t seem to jibe with what Jesus taught. So I’m hoping you can shed some light on that.
For example, you say you see no need for a youth ministry in church (calling it “non-essential”), nor any need to spend time “drawing new people” into the church. In several places you imply that all of a Pastor’s efforts should be directed only to serving the faithful, elderly members, who have attended regularly for years.
But I ask: in what way does that attitude obey the Great Commission? In what way does it parallel the attitude of Jesus in Matthew 18:12? In what way does it implement the teachings of Jesus in Mark 2:17?
If there is no place for youth in your theology, I’m wondering where David would have ended up in your church? Or the apostle John? Or young Samuel? Perhaps even young Timothy? All of them were mere youths at the time of their calling. What would their standing be in your church?
You said: “Faithful members and attenders get neglected at the expense of drawing new people”, yet Jesus implied that this is exactly what a pastor should do, in Matthew 19:14. The faithful are already saved, and should have been taught well enough over all those years to understand that the true Pastor’s very first priority is always the lost: it is his job and calling to go after that one missing sheep, leaving the 99 on their own for a while. In the more complete parallel passage in Luke, Jesus ends the parable with: “…‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.” How much rejoicing in heaven goes on with a ministry that has no interest in “drawing new people” to Christ?
It is curious that, in justifying your words and attiude, and expressing your prayer that another poster would be lead “… to a church that has a shepherd after God’s own heart”, you cite Jeremiah 3:15. I say “curious” since the context of that verse is God calling faithless people to return to him! V14: “Return, faithless people,” declares the Lord, “for I am your husband. I will choose you—one from a town and two from a clan—and bring you to Zion. Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding…”. It seems to me that the “Pastor after my own heart” to whom God refers, is the pastor who does like He does, and calls the faithless, rather than spending too much time on those who are already saved.
When another poster (rasinwhiting), drew your attention to 3 John and the comment on Diotrephes, you didn’t seem to understand at all that he saw it as a reference to you. Perhaps you should go back and read what you wrote there, then read the quote from John 3, and see if you can see the parallel. It’s not hard to see.
When another poster commented on the importance of reaching out to teens, you shot back: “You will not find one single solitary verse in Bible where it mandates a local church to have a youth ministry”. Perhaps Mark 10:14 might be applicable, at a stretch. On the other hand, there aren’t any bible verses that mandate a purely geriatric ministry, either!
When you asked another poster why they were “moving on” to a different church, and she spent a great deal of time carefully explaining her reasons, you dismissed all of that with: “That’s an extremely immature reason to leave a church.”. That’s rather sad, actually, that a Pastor would imply someone is “extremely immature”, simply because as they grew, they needed something their old church could not offer. Then you added: “I could probably care less about hearing feedback from a family who left my church for the reasons you have left”: Whatever happened to the picture that Jesus projects, of a pastor lovingly caring for his flock? Insulting the flock hardly seems caring… I have a hard time trying to imagine Jesus using that phrase to the sheep that is about to wander away from the flock… “I could care less about you, and
your extremely immature attitude to the flock”… For some reason, I don’t see that happening…
Then in answer to another poster, who brought up several additional points that he finds annoying, you rather sarcastically shot back: ” I must have totally skipped over the book of the Bible that demands churches conform to every church hopper’s preferences and style. What’s that book again?”. I have a feeling the book you are seeking might be Matthew, in particular chapter 18 and verse 4. Or it might have been the book of 1 Peter, chapter 3 verse 8 that has eluded your attention. As well as the same book, but chapter 5, verse 5. (Micah 6:8 might have something to do with it as well.)
Another comment that I found strange, coming from a pastor: “The elders and I are called to shepherd the sheep … not provide tangible wants and aesthetic appeal for unbelievers”. Yet what I see Jesus and his disciples doing when they fed the 5000 seems to be exactly that: providing for the tangible needs of the unbelievers.
You also say: “I can’t allow the retention of visitors to be the priority”. Another strange comment from a pastor. If you don’t make an effort to welcome visitors, then why would they want to stay?
Since your ministry model seems to be to based on ignoring youth, not evangelizing, not retaining visitors, and concentrating entirely on the elderly faithful, I’m wondering where your ministry will be a few years from now, after the Lord has called all those faithful elderly to His side? If you have neglected reaching out to the next generation (since they are “non-essential”), done nothing to retain visitors (since you “can’t allow” that distraction), done nothing to retain long-standing members who feel like moving on (since that is “extremely immature” and you could “care less about” them), and spent no time drawing in new disciples, baptizing them, and teaching them to obey everything Christ has commanded us (since that would be “drawing new people” in, which you say is not important), then I’m wondering who exactly will be sitting in your pews in the future?
It seems to me, you’ll have a rather empty, quite, silent church, sooner or later. I’m not sure that preaching powerful expository messages to rows of empty pews is what Jesus had in mind, at the end of Matthew 28…
A boring service? God forbid we don’t properly entertain His people! Exactly what’s wrong with the American Church…the service is for God, not the people!
I used to travel a lot and can identify with most of these. Handshake time during the service is bad for two reasons. 1) It’s just plain awkward if you don’t know anyone, and it interrupts the worship, and 2) it’s artificial. If you want to shake my hand, do it before or after the service. If you can’t make the effort without being told to, then please don’t.
Also, I have been asked to move with my family before because we, as visitors, were in some member’s seat. The pastor watched as the five of us got up and moved for the one senior “saint”. All tolled, there are a lot of behaviors we become accustomed to that drive people off. It’s not intentional but rather institutional. Still, the items you list are very important. It’s not that guests are consumerist, so much as these actions actively drive them away.
Great post. Let all the churches read and learn.
I love watching Christians argue over simple stuff like their image , how they are represented or being made to look in a certain fashion to all argue about it. Arguining about everything. It makes people uncomfortable . it makes people mainly uncomfortable because of one main thing, their radical views against everything modern mostly , especially gays. Yes its a sin but according to your Jesus forgive. I’m not gay but anyways these are definitely good points also!
In my opinion, prayer circles for prayer time are a bad idea. I attend a fairly large church. The Pastor frequently has everyone stand, form a small group, hold hands and pray out loud. One word. Uncomfortable.
LORD, forgive them for they know not what they do! come on people! be christ like! quit this pettieness.
What’s worse than any of those 10 is a dry, dead, no spirit service.
I found this article very interesting. First I came to the church I belong to when I was 14 with my parents when we were looking for a church after the one we were had been attending since I was the age of 2, was disbanded. I felt immediately welcome and loved. They had a great youth group (which at the time being 14, was very important) However my folks decided after a couple of months that it was time to move on. The church we ended up at was completely different. No one my age, no youth ministry, and did not feel welcome. Funny my folks are still there, and things have changed dramatically over the years. I however went back to the other church. We have gone through several changes, but one thing has remained the same, everyone no matter what is always welcomed. We have a greeter at the front door from about 10:30 until 10:50 that greets people when they come in. We do have passing of the peace, which happens just after our childrens message, and it is a good segway while the kids are exiting the sanctuary. Thanks for the article.
As adoptive parents of 4, all diffferent races, we had to visit many different congregations after a work move to find a church we felt comfortable at. Our family was stared at, one time singled out from pulpit as visitors, sat through a class as to whether Christians should date outside their race (already planned topic), just to name a few. We finally found a congregation where our daughter was not the only one with black skin. For some visitors looking for a church home, race is a real issue.
no. what scares people from Churches. is RELIGION!
Define “religion”.
Wait, indoctrination, xenophobia, homophobia, misogyny, racism, shame and mass death in the name of God weren’t on this list? I think I’m you’re missing a few pivotal things…
You’ve proven a point I made earlier. Some people are looking for things to criticize, and if they can’t find anything, they’ll make up stuff. You are obviously one of those people.
#8, “Boring or bad service”, is a bit of a red herring.
I don’t mean that visitors who said that weren’t genuinely bored, but oftentimes there’s a certain type of visitor who is looking to have his or her ears tickled and to be entertained, and if the church in question understands that their mission is to teach the Bible, have an God-focussed worship service with unison prayers, and has classic (or classical!) worship music, these folks will feel justified in walking out the door, never to return again.
American culture is an entertainment-oriented culture, and too often unchurched people or even new Christians assume that the Church exists to either entertain them or conform to their expectations. So if your church does not have the latest fad du jour (pop music, multi-site, an embedded Starbucks franchise), you are going to lose a certain type of person often. But the key is being able to distinguish between that effect and genuine off-putting things that a local church is too arrogant to see and address.
Gonna share my experience: I had to move to a new state due to Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) decision. Grace of God let me keep my job if I moved. I began attending my (new) local church in the same denomination I had been attending for 20 years, and although I got smiles of welcome when I sat in a pew, there was nothing behind the smile. Passing of the Peace was totally awkward with fish like handshakes. From the pulpit everyone was invited to coffee hour “over in the other building.” Not once, in all the weeks I tried, did anyone say, “let me show you where our coffee hour is” or “come with us” or any other encouragement. I was actually referred to as “one of those BRAC people” more than once. It’s kind of a shame because I entered ready to serve. If they asked they would have found a Sunday School teacher, a Deacon, an Elder, a supporter. I wasn’t coming in as an unchurched consumer, I was looking for familiar ground in a new location.
We moved several years ago and after the move we visited 4 different churches before we found one we felt comfortable in. The greeting time I’d say was a bit awkward but I didn’t give it that much thought. I was talking to my mother in law a few months ago who was visiting a new church and one of the things she brought up was she really didn’t like greeting time. It’s different for people who have been going to the church for a long time and know most of the people there. For new people it’s a bit odd to shake hands with complete strangers. It’s just not something we do in our normal lives. You don’t go the the grocery store and shake hands with all the strangers you meet.
When new people visit you want them to feel comfortable. If you make them uncomfortable they may never come back. We don’t seek to repeat uncomfortable situations generally.
Daniel
The “meet-&-greet” turnoff is only a shocker to the extroverts. To those of us who are introverts, we’ve known this all along.
We do The stand up meet and greet. What suggestions do you have to replace that with. I have diehard meet and greeters which is overwhelming to some!
I have been looking for a new church home for 2 months now. the last place I have visited seemed nice but they only have 10 people each week. each week there is a greet time where the member insist on hugging even though I have told them I do not feel comfortable with that. I am giving them one more chance and then moving on.
Some churches have the closest parking spaces to the church assigned to specific ‘giving’ members’ of the church. Now you can buy your way into the church. Ridiculous. Giving should come from the heart and not announced all over the parking lot.
You always could by your way in. How do you think certain people maintain their power and influence? He who does not give much is not entitled to his opinion being heard.
Thom: Thought you’d like to know. I posted this on Clergy Coaching Network, and it’s been seen by more than 130,000, had 131 likes and 623 shares. Rick Kirchoff for Clergy Coaching Network https://www.facebook.com/clergycoachingnetwork
Wow.
Very interesting article, and great comments. I can identify heavily with the “crashing a family reunion” feeling, and not just because I have experienced it personally many times as a military wife, but also because after attending our church for several years it still exists. It doesn’t happen too often, but I’ve learned to accept it because it’s a small country church and many of the founding members descendants still attend there. I stay because i feel lead to stay and try to be the one to fill in the gap, so to speak, for newer members or visitors who may be noticing it happening too and may feel turned off enough by it to leave the church. I want them to stay and help grow our church. It’s a tough job, but I’ve discovered a few others like myself in our church like myself who try to help be the “glue” our church needs.
I think your list for why people don’t come back should be printed out and included as a bulletin insert . It helps to look in a mirror periodically to make sure everything’s as it should be. The ones who may get offended and leave probably weren’t genuine in their membership in the first place.
We had to change churches often, partly because of moving but often because of our allergies to fragrances. I wish churches wouldn’t use scented candles, etc. When visiting churches I liked the meet and greet times if they were short, but hated when the supposedly friendly people who greeted us during the service would totally ignore us during the coffee hour (or whatever they called it) afterwards. Sometimes as we left the service pastors would be carrying on a conversation with someone else as they shook our hands and that was a turn off, too.
Thom,
I do not disagree with the list, necessarily. However, you said it came from responses to a tweet, etc. It would seem likely that most respondents were looking for a church because they were already believers. Your previous book “Unchurched” implies that unbelievers might not consider all of these quite as important.. Is my ministry experience typical? It suggests that unbelievers come to church largely because of an invitation and stay because they find help and hope, even if the parking is urban and inconvenient.
Bruce –
The best I can tell is that the respondents were about 60% believers and 40% unbelievers.
If I had been able to contribute I might have added this sideways comment: “… and can’t you scrub those martyrs’ blood stains out of the carpet for goodness sake!” My mother church is in Syria and that sort of comment would not be out of context right now. Many folks have entirely the wrong priorities.
Amen, brother!!! Thank you for helping us put things in perspective!
I have found from my perspective as a visitor that friendly greeters at the door and an open invitation from the pulpit to attend a small group meeting during the week [with all info clearly and easily available on the group(s)] is a good replacement for the “stand up and greet” time during the service. Those who want to further investigate what the church is about can do so at the group and people feel that they were greeted well at the door. I enjoy friendly interaction before and after the service. Those combined with a friendly congregation, a culture of healthy leadership, voluntary options on visitor cards to request a visit from a pastoral staff member, and a gracious welcome letter from the church seem to meet most emotional needs of visitors. A church that takes into consideration the “whole person” of each visitor is much appreciated by many. The list provided and some comments showed insight into meeting those needs, just as a healthy family does. Thank you for sharing such keen insight!
Thank you, Nancy.
In many of these reasons given, the problem is not the church, but the person.
#1: So people don’t wish to engage in fellowship with their Christians, that’s why they don’t go back to a church that actively engages in their community.
#5, #6, #7 are poppycock. Especially 7. Why should we water down our beliefs and customs to appease people, why should we water down the truth?
#8 ~ translation “We were looking to be entertained not to worship the Triune God.”
Look upon yourself before you look upon your church.
>#5, #6, #7 are poppycock.
Waarom lees ʼn website dat het die verkeerde plek, of die verkeerde tyd, or die verkeerde naam van die kerk? Of enige ander goed wat verkeerd is?
ʼn Kerk met een kamer hat geen badkamers. Wat is in ʼn kerk met twee, of meer kamers? As dit jou eerste tyd daar is, ken jy nie waar wat is nie.
Praat ʼn taal dat ʼn persoon verstaan nie, en jy is die uitlander, nie die persoon met wie jy praat nie.
Jy praat en praat, maar wat het jy gese?
IOW, #5, #6, #7 and #8 are precisely about the lack of communication skills on the part of the church leadership. Theology doesn’t even enter this picture.
Great post! I’ve always taught that the children’s ministry is the greatest “attractant,” or “repellant” to new visitors. Thanks for the confirmation once again. If anyone wants to improve their children’s ministry, take a look at my book, “Growing A Healthy Children’s Ministry” on Amazon.
I personally do not enjoy a meet and greet. I want to be left alone to worship with my family. If attention is given to me because I am new, I would probably never return. Let people just be part of the church and leave them alone. Everybody descending on a guest is repulsive to me. I would just like to enter, listen, and leave and enjoy the rest of the weekend before I go back to work. If I wish to get more involved, I will.
You can’t have it both ways. If you want to be part of the church, you can’t expect people to just leave you alone. A church is a team, and people are expected to do their part. Unfortunately, your attitude is exactly why so many churches are dying. It’s called lack of commitment.
Oh my word! I so very much dislike the “Stand and greet your neighbor” part of our service!
First, it’s forced, which is linked to #2, unfriendly church members.
Second, what if I’m dying inside. What if I’m dealing with something very heavy, very grieved. I’m supposed to stand and smile and say, “Oh, I’m fine, thanks!”
Third, my pastor is an extreme extrovert. I am introverted. About 25% of most congregations are introverted. Introverts dislike this stuff as much as extroverts crave it.
Fourth, it can be a form of control by the pastor…”Hey, watch. I can make my congregation do something they really dislike.”
Fifth, it wastes time in the service and breaks the flow of service. GAH! I hate this so much!
So, they are turned off because you are friendly, and turned off because they think you’re unfriendly? Just goes to prove that somepeople will never be happy. That’s why you do what you believe to be right, and let people decide for themselves.
Of course, I have always believed you attend a church to hear the teachings and doctrines of the word of God, not to worry about all the small stuff, and believe me, every item in this list is small stuff. Yes, clean facilities is a good thing, but some churches are poor and can’t afford top of the line accomodations, and to have everything professionally cleaned each week. And let me say that one of the driest-given sermons known out there, boring by today’s standards, was ‘Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God, by Johnathan Edwards, which so stirred the hearts of the listeners that they could barely be contained from going forward in tears and prayer while the sermon continued. But today it would be boring.
A long time back I stopped trying to please man, and sought to please God in the work I do, and while we are small, I can stand before the Lord to give account.
Amen. Well said, brother.
> to have everything professionally cleaned each week
There is no reason why the members of the congregation can not clean the building, for gratis, and provide the same quality of cleaning as a professional cleaning company does.
Well, there is one reason. In some locales, it is a civil violation of local labor law, for people to contribute their services to an organization, any organization, including non-profits, and other charitable organizations, for gratis. In those locales, the preacher can spend the same amount of time cleaning the church, as s/he does preparing his/her sermon.
“Just goes to prove that somepeople will never be happy.”
My sentiments exactly!
Amen! My feelings exactly Ukulelemike. This just shows how carnal, self centered and polluted the Church has become (at least in the West). The Body of Christ is all about community, corporate oneness, love. So are we now to cater to the low level of their carnality? Many of these people may not even be saved. So when do we stop listening to the carnal for how we do church? God help us!
More than these reasons, one thing that turns off many newcomers is the mindset of the “loving” congregants who rail against helping the poor, or extending a hand to those in genuine need, or heaven forbid – their family doesn’t look exactly like they feel it should… If the churches were focused on helping those around them, maybe then more people would be interested in attending. I haven’t attended a church service in years, and can’t imagine going back because whether there’s a great facility, or super friendly people, it doesn’t matter! If the church opens on Sunday morning for a few hours, and at a couple of times during the week, what difference does it make? Honestly, what difference does it make? Are you feeding the hungry? Are you clothing the naked? Probably not. And I don’t mean the once a year food drive, or the shoe boxes full of stuff that gets sent off to the far side of the earth once per year – Be Honest – What are you doing to help those in need across the block OR ACROSS THE AISLE from where you plant your butt for 75 minutes once per week? People are hurting and desperate, and all most “church people” can say is that they’re so blessed – so those less fortunate aren’t blessed? Wow, if God is real, you’re going to pay for that mindset! I’d waaaay rather pee in an outhouse at a church that served it’s fellow man in a meaningful way than to grace the door of a beautiful facility that could care less, which by the way, is the situation in most churches today.
Ed, you make some very good points; however, you sound pretty bitter. I hope you haven’t let imperfect people prevent you from having a relationship with a perfect Savior.
It is unfortunate that our society has so much of what we want that we have decided that we don’t need God anymore, but we dutifully give Him a couple hours of our time every week… as long as it isn’t too cold, raining, snowing…
Serial lessons taught from the pulpit are an issue. I’ve seen this in multiple churches of various denominations. Serial teachings belong in Sunday School, not the pulpit during regular service hours. Also, teaching dogma, not doctrine. Too many pastors are trying to understand and preach an Eastern religion through a Western mindset. The culture of Biblical times needs to be studied to impart the full effect of the lesson. Most of the New Testament were letters written to the churches in various places as an admonishment for where they were messing up. I’ve know people who were Christians since 1964 who were unaware of the fact that other folk besides Jesus were resurrected at the same time He was. This is because folks don’t study the deeper lessons in scripture. Also, preachers at funerals who say the deceased are in heaven…seriously? Have you READ the Bible? Heaven hasn’t been created yet. They are asleep in Christ. Sure, you may feel better thinking your loved one is in heaven, but it isn’t Scriptural. If a pastor doesn’t comprehend the Scripture in its intended form, he needs further learning. I’m appalled by the number of congregants that never question the watered version of the Word coming out of most pulpits. Challenge your congregation to seek the meat of the Word, not just the milk.
This is a good discussion. Personally, I have made plans during the week to attend a church but come Sunday morning I can think of numerous reasons not to go with no good reasons. Meet and greet is usually a way for the pastor to introduce you to the person next to you so you want feel you won’t feel like you’re seated next to a stranger. Please, please don’t let that make you feel uncomfortable. You are there to praise God and He doesn’t care if you participate in meet and greet: you’ll still get to heaven. I don’t like for church members to ask if you’ve been saved, or are you baptized, you need to pay tithes or asking personal questions. If someone tells you they have a regular seat go to another church; they are selfish. Don’t worry because there are plenty churches around and keep searching until you find one you feel comfortable.
Pastor Bob
I am a Catholic and was invited to a Penecostal church. Went to Bible
Study and 3 people made insulting remarks about Catholics including the one giving the Bible Study. I went to that Church because my friend kept asking me to come. I’ll never go back. I am Catholic until I die. I didn’t make fun of their church although I heard things foreign to me.
We’ve moved twice in the last 3 years and had the opportunity to visit several churches.
It’s about much more than just saying hello or showing up on your door step. It’s about a willingness to be open to relationship and additional friendships….
One church we visited was have a “special event” (we still don’t know what it was, they never told us) and they used the service to thank the participants. No sermon. Not a single Bible verse was read. While it was apparent that they had really felt God move during the “event”, it was not the right time or place… All churches should assume they’ll have a visitor every week.
Another church stood stoically for the contemporary worship music (no clapping, no hand raising) but ended their service by asking everyone to hold hands across the aisles and pray. From cold to way too warm! It was VERY awkward.
Our best experiences have been when folks warmly acknowledged our attendance (especially when visiting SS classes), invited us to join them for lunch, had a class fellowship and made sure we had directions, and added us to their class email lists – allowing us to be “in the loop” on what was going on with the class (not all of these things at once).
There can be too sharp a line between “members only” and visitors…consider giving your visitors the benefits of membership. They’ll be much more likely to become members.
And then there are the guests we don’t get to survey because the off-putting or alienating marquee signs that run them off before they ever enter the church doors.
How shallow to assume that the role of the church is to appeal to the occasional visitor. The premise here seems to be that the way to save the lost is to try to get them into the building and then market Christ in such a way that they want to return. Admittedly, this paradigm absolves Christians of any responsibility for taking the Gospel out the doors and into the world.
Having been in the military and, therefore, making several moves ( > 10) over the last 20+ years, my wife and I have been “visitors” to several churches. We have made mistakes in choosing a church home over the years, with the most common mistake being making a choice based on the “praise and worship” portion of the service. However, standing and shaking hands and saying “good morning” during the service has never been a deterrent.
This poll surveyed people as to why they didn’t return to a church. I would have liked to have heard what made them decide to go in the first place. Just a thought.
Excellent points!
I would like to offer a word of encouragement to introverts. Yes the meet-and-greet is awkward. So is dating, so is meeting anyone. Don’t we do things like this all the time in business/education/workplace when we have to…for some greater good? I am an introvert too… but I am learning that it is more important to be loving than comfortable. (I’m sure lots of you have reached the same conclusion). I’ve spent meet-and-greets with no one to talk to, no one even making eye contact with me, and I was tempted to feel rejected, but I also learned to give grace and feel that I just was surrounded by folks who had others to talk to or who were shyer than I am. The flip side of the coin is that I’ve also met wonderful folks and developed friendships after shaking hands and saying hello. I feel it’s my job to make the people around me feel welcomed and loved, even in my shy, awkward, non-smooth way. Also, for me, being *forced* to say hello is much easier than some coffee hour where you’re not sure whether to approach someone, how long to talk, etc. and you feel like you’re the only one standing there by yourself. That is MORE awkward.
Also, in large churches with multiple services, it is very hard to recognize a first-time visitor. There are people who have been going to church with me for years but whom I’ve never had a chance to meet before.
Thank God that His grace is there for all our mis-steps, and let’s offer that grace to our fellow believers too. (preaching to myself here).
Bravo! I wish more church members had your attitude!
I am a church custodian (I like to call myself the Minister of Maintenance), so the one about clean facilities is a personal one for me. I would hate to be the reason someone gave for not wanting to come back to our church.
I’m not currently living in the USA, but I well remember going to churches with active singles ministries when I did live there. Some were downright unfriendly, especially in the South and among Southern Baptist churches. I remember going to a church where a man stood at the door of the singles meeting and was actually asking people their ages, banning anyone who said they were 35 or older. I understand the need for different groups for different stages of life, but this was ridiculous. And why do they assume that single men are automatically “stalking” younger women? I look young for my age, and when I attended a group in a Tennessee church and people thought I was in my early 30’s, it was fine. But when it was discovered I was actually 42, some of the younger women in the group started treating me like I was a “dirty old man” just because of my actual age, and I never even asked a woman out. I was asked not to return to that group, so I stopped attending that church. This type of thing can really turn people off from attending. So can too much emphasis on wealth and financial investment when you have a large disparity of income among members.
As someone who was raised agnostic I never attended church in my youth except for the occasional invitation by a friend after a Saturday sleepover.
Later in life I tried searching for a church to attend as I had found my faith.
I went to several in an attempt to “church shop” for lack of a better word. The one thing that put me off from attending regularly was that I was the only one in attendance between the ages of 20-60.
One reason I had been told that church was valuable (and to be completely honest the one that spoke to me loudest) was that it would be a good place to meet people who at least have faith in common with you.
If this makes me shallow so be it. Just trying to help with why I didn’t return to the churches I tried.
The childcare worker let our 7 year old out of class without matching his ID sticker! He told me he sent him with a grandma and her grandsons, I guess our son just followed the crowd…thank goodness he only wanted to play in the front play zone sooner, b/c that’s where he was. But that was the first time we ever visited, and while we’ll probably go back again, that experience is forever burned into my mind as the first impression of the church.
We were fairly new at a church and had 2 young kids at the time. We were attending a Sunday School class then the service afterwards. After the SS class I had a funny feeling, and went to check on my 3 year old in her class. I was shocked to find her ALONE in the room with the door wide open. The workers just left her. I stayed in the classroom with her until the next teacher came in, then had her introduce me to the children’s director. We had a rather frank talk about what had happened, and thankfully she realized that the church had majorly screwed up. She even called me later in the week to follow up that she had spoken to the teacher and had set new policies in place to make sure that never happened again.
Now if we attend a new church I will not leave my kids in the nursery. I don’t like when a church tries to push me to leave my kids in the nursery. These are strangers you are asking me to leave my most precious treasures with. Please respect my right to keep them with me..
It’s funny. After being a member of my church for 25 years, the meet and greet is my least favorite part of the service. Most often, I utilize this time for restroom or beverage break.
Having moved frequently in the past seven years for my husband’s work, we have been to many, many churches looking for a church home. Contemporary music is one thing that turns us off. Not all contemporary, but strictly contemporary, where they do not take into consideration the age of the congregation. And even little churches, which are not that “type”, somehow feel the need to be “relevant” and do contemporary very poorly for the sake of doing it. Unfriendly church members is another thing. Especially when they do a handshaking time, and people approach you like your old friend, but wouldn’t give you a look or a smile, except for handshaking time. We have been in some very excellent, well-rounded churches over the years, so we may be pickier than some, because we know what we are looking for. But the above are a couple of things that have made us not want to return to a church to give it a second look.
I would like to add recruiting you aggressively on your first visit. I have a degree in music education as well as a degree in computer engineering. Very few churches have I visited where I haven’t been asked to do their Christmas pageant and run their sound boards and revamp their website within the first 30 minutes of visiting. One even managed to guilt me into joining their small music group and I showed up expecting a rehearsal and they said “So what are you going to play for the offertory for this evening?” Uggggh. I ended up sitting 4 hours through a Lutheran Lent service (I’m not even Catholic or Lutheran, but those were the only two real choices I had in the geographic area) embarrassed to be play in front of a church wearing blue jeans (remember, I dressed for a rehearsal).
I don’t know how many churches I’ve visited where I was just so overwhelmed on the FIRST VISIT regarding EVERY possible musical and technology based need.
And everyone wants it for free. I’m happy to serve, but if I’m not a member of your church, I expect a pay check. It’s how I put food on the table. I can’t do everything for free for anyone who asks for it.
On the positive side, there are plenty of churches that grow. Look for those and you might feel welcome. We go to NewSpring Church in South Carolina. Their website is http://www.newspring.cc and you can even participate online.
But judging from some of the comments here, some people don’t WANT to feel welcome. That makes them “uncomfortable”. It just goes to prove that you can’t please everybody.
I view meet and greet as filler, not unlike illustrations. I went to one church who deliberately decided to extend the M & G to 15 minutes of random conversations. For a few Sundays I wandered around the church building and one Sunday I wandered out the door and never went back.
I am a member of the Episcopal Church (for 35 years) and my brother is a former Episcopal priest. I remember discussing with him the “passing of the peace” and relating to him how I hated it! I felt it disrupted the service–it’s always followed by the weekly announcements and then by communion. This segment of the service distracted me from communing with God and preparing for communion….and as I told my brother this, he started laughing! He said that within the Episcopal Church, passing the peace is basically the most important part of the service–perhaps even the entire point of the service. He said, “You are asking God to bless your neighbors with peace. So, you are loving God and your neighbors…isn’t this the point of gathering to worship together?”
I felt like an idiot–and I’ve never viewed the passing of the peace in the same light. I’m not going to say I enjoy it–but now I try to use it to connect with my elderly pewmates, wishing them SINCERELY, God’s Peace. Perhaps if congregants were educated on what the passing of the peace truly means, there wouldn’t be quite the same distaste for it.
Now–this is not to be confused with asking visitors and guests to stand up and do a meet and greet during the service. This is not part of the Episcopal service at my church–nor would I advocate it. We have the usual cards on the ends of each pew, for anyone interested in learning more about our church or wanting a visit from the parish priest.
I don’t understand what is wrong with “fellowship time” in church.
I think “I’m introverted” is a pretty poor excuse. I am introverted by default too. But I know that greeting the brothers and sisters is mandatory. I am shocked that people would find a handshake and a personal “hello, how are you? welcome to the church” so offensive.
My blood boils when people say they skip the time to go to the restroom or hide. It’s not all about you. It’s about the body.
If having strangers shake your hand is the #1 cause of defection, we are in a sad state as a church.
As a pastor I struggle with this issue and believe there is no “one size fits all” answer. I pastor (bi-vocationally) a small church and we do have a brief (less than 2 minutes) time where everyone is asked to stand and greet each other. We make no distinction for and do not single out “guests”. When we have done guest follow-up it has been a universally praised experience. We had an African-American single lady visit our almost entirely anglo church and when we did follow-up her comment was particularly how welcomed she felt when so many people greeted her.
Each church has to make its own decision but if a greeting/fellowship time is used I do believe the regular members/attenders need to understand that they are to seek out guests and never let new faces go un-greeted. That’s my take from my church. Certainly it does not apply everywhere.
Not having everything needed in the bulletin to follow along with the service I found very frustrating when we were trying to find a new church. I felt lost and confused at times.
I read quite a few of these responses because I’m looking for some great suggestions on the “meet-and-greet” dilemma. Maybe I overlooked them. Do you all have any ideas?
I have felt that I’ve scared off people by being too friendly and that it is perceived as insincere. It’s a painful experience to feel you are offensive to others. But if we are called to love, that is exactly what happens at times. For others, I am what they needed for that day. That is the life of a Christian, don’t you think?
But I’m wondering how we can turn that around to ease the angst of first-timers, and that’s where we can help on this site. I’d love to hear your positive ideas.
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On college orientation day, your first day at a new job, the first visit to the “hangout” coffee shop or bar in your new neighborhood, when you finally meet your fiancé’s family, you’re offended if you’re warmly greeted and people express an interest in you and you’ll never go back there again? And in your opinion churches shouldn’t “pass the peace” – which is akin to a wish for the other to have a good day and a good life – because a church where the regular congregants don’t even care for each other is more attractive to you?
Edward, a fiance’s family is a different thing entirely – but the coffee shop example works.
Let’s say you go to the new coffee shop and you’d just like to sit there with a nice cup of coffee and listen to the house band. Good coffee, good music. This a perfectly-fine reason to go to a coffee shop.
You’re greeted warmly by the barista. This is good, since you have to interface with her to get your beverage. She takes your order, you get your coffee, then you go sit down. You’re listening to the band. This is a good evening so far.
All of a sudden, the band stops playing and the barista yells that everybody in the coffee shop should go introduce themselves to one another.
Now everybody in the coffee shop is wanting to shake your hand, tell you about themselves, get your name, find out what you do for a living, whether you come to this coffee shop often, etc.
Is that what you were expecting?
Probably not. And given that it’s completely unexpected, can you see how that might be a bit disconcerting if you just went there to hear the band? Especially if you’re not the sort of person who’s hyper-outgoing in the first place?
That’s what we’re talking about here.
Introverts aren’t antisocial – but the ways in which they socialize *are* different. And having a couple dozen people want to shake your hand and ask you questions all at once can be very uncomfortable for them.
I think the whole idea of what we do to retain first time visitors is based on an outdated attractional model of church. The fact is, members like where they sit, how they sing, how they greet, how they listen to a message, how they visit before and after the service with people they know already for the time they like. My questions are: Why is a time of greeting inauthentic and contrived? Why isn’t a time of genuine welcome, greeting, caring, concern? Why is that visitor coming alone to church? My guess is if Thom surveyed people who came with a friend to church their experience would be totally different. It would be different for the member who saw the service through their friend’s eyes, and it would be different for the friend who appreciated what their friend did for worship. And if a member brings a friend, there’s no need for an information table or website. The nursery would be clean because the member thinks of church as a place of hospitality, not a club. Evangelism is the work of the whole church, not the website designer. Our hearts (the whole church) need to change to welcome the stranger.
“Why is that visitor coming alone to church?”
I’m not trying to judge and I do agree that the hearts of the whole church need to be welcoming, but what about the people that just moved into the area that don’t know anyone?
What about the people that have never been to church or know any church goers?
Are you saying that they should be excluded? That the people visiting the church need to have an “in”? I have in times of my life been searching for something that was missing in my life and drove up to the first church I found without knowing anyone. Are you saying that I should not do that?
” Why is a time of greeting inauthentic and contrived?”
It shouldn’t be, but often times the members just go through the motions and do it because they are told to. not because they want to meet new people.
“Why isn’t a time of genuine welcome, greeting, caring, concern? ”
I don’t know what this question is asking
I am very surprised by the first one. Every church that I have been a part of always has a time to greet one another. I do remember when a couple of churches I have been to will let the members stand and the visitors sit so the ushers/deacons can find them to give them a visitors card. That time was followed by a meet and greet.
It just so happens that I joined my son and girl friend yesterday to check out a new church in their city. There are a number of reasons I would not return, but one thing was downright offensive to me. The speaker joked about being delivered from being a baptist. This was in a charismatic type assembly, and I’ve heard this among Charismatics before. It is one thing to call out false doctrine. It is another to set your denomination up on high as if you are perfect. I am no longer Baptist, but I was saved in a Southern Baptist Church, and my beliefs are certainly closer to the Baptist persuasion than the Charismatic, though I will read and listen to speakers in that movement. Once he said that, my spirit closed.
Our church has a “stand up and greet” time which coincides with the children’s dismissal to Sunday School. From a simple logistical standpoint, the greeting time masks the commotion of parents removing their children from the pews and heading up the aisles. Also, if everyone is standing up, then it’s less embarrassing and awkward for people to stand up and squeeze past someone else in the pew who is sitting down.
I’m a socially awkward semi-extrovert, so I find the “stand up and greet” time to be uncomfortable. But I use it to work my weak “small talk” muscles. I’m mentally allergic to walking up to a group of people and inserting myself into their conversation, even if they’re all friends of mine. As a result, I spend very little time at church “socializing.” So having a designated time of shared awkwardness gives me permission to “invade” someone’s life for ten seconds.
I think SUAG times are like most other moments in our lives — we can use them for the glory of God and for the good of others, or we can use them for ourselves. That will look different for both extroverts and introverts. We can use them sinfully as “clique” time, or we can use them sinfully as “resenting other people” time. Or we can use them as personal bubble-bursting opportunities to welcome new-to-us faces, to check in with someone who’s struggling, or to humor that bouncy, chirpy extrovert who insists on bear-hugging everyone.
Ever had someone shake your hand while looking over your shoulder to see who they are going to greet next??
I am surprised people are ill at ease for the Kiss of Peace/Stand up and Greet. While I’ve heard it from some churchgoers, I’ve never heard anyone is business or social settings say they don’t shake hands. Why this shyness only in church?
Watch a business meeting and/or convention. Some people will get up and introduce themselves to everybody in the room. They’re great at making small talk, and they hand out a ton of business cards. Other people will mostly hang out by themselves, but will shake hands with the people they’re explicitly introduced to, are already familiar with, or people that they’re meeting for an intentional reason.
The first group of people are the extroverts. The second group is the introverts.
The “stand up and greet” part of a service, if you’re new, works well for extroverts. Not so much for introverts.
And regarding the *existing* church members, this is very much a “If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?” sort of situation.
New people should be greeted. Just like bulletins should be folded, toilets should be scrubbed, and nurseries should be staffed.
But saying that *everybody* should fold bulletins, *everybody* should scrub toilets, and *everybody* should staff the nursery is wrongheaded, in that it fails to recognize that people are gifted differently.
Love this article.. #1 seems to be generating an awful lot of debate! I totally agree with the suggestion that the “stand up and shake 20 hands” thing needs to be killed with fire. However, what alot of people don’t realize is that it’s there for a hidden purpose. While we’re all frantically shaking 20 person’s hands and avoiding eye contact, the band is getting off the stage and the stage is being prepped for the next segment of the service, probably the sermon. If they didn’t tell us to turn around and shake hands, then we’d all have to sit there and watch the stage transformation in awkward silence. Wouldn’t that be terrible?!?!?
Tom, you can solve the awkwardness by having somebody pray. That way everybody closes their eyes and the band can make a mad dash back to their seats. 😀
There are so many comments above that I tried to read, but there are too many. I suppose someone may have written this already and I don’t expect anyone to read it , but I felt the desire to post my thoughts.
I was raised in the church, but I never believed. I have visited many churches in my adult life to see if they were different from the one that I was raised in.
These are the things that turned me off from wanting to continue going and the reasons:
#1 The time in the middle of the service that you have to stand up and talk to people/hug/shake hands. The reasons? I don’t like to be touched for one. I hardly let my friends touch me. The “meet and greet time” that was mentioned in the comments above that is either before or after the service is different because one or two people coming up to me and shaking my hand was more tolerable than all of the people around me trying to give me a hug. I also read people really well and I can tell those that are doing it because they feel obligated and it feels like they are putting a wall up around you. I would do away with that time and let the people that genuinely love people to approach the visitors. Often, if I were to try to just sit in my seat quietly to avoid the touching, people that I didn’t even know would ask what my problem is. I know churchgoers are people too with their own problems, but that is not right for visitors. If you aren’t honest don’t greet someone you don’t know.
#2 This one kind of goes along with the first, but…. that greeter that is in front of the front door that will not let you in the church without a hug. Ok, I get it, you love to give and receive hugs. I don’t want to be forced to give you a hug every single time I go to church. I found back ways into the church to avoid it after I asked them to stop and they said that I needed more hugs in order to enjoy being hugged…. right.
#3 The bombardment of literature mailed to me. I have visited churches that I attended once and continued to receive updates or requests for donations for YEARS after my visit. I am still receiving notices from a church I visited over ten years ago. I went once and I have moved seven times, but I still get their updates. I gave them my address because it was on their visitor welcome card. Now I don’t even fill them out because I don’t want to waste all those trees and resources. Something that I found enjoyable on the other hand are little information packets handed to the visitor that includes a pamphlet talking about the church and their history, something with the pictures of the church leaders so the visitor knows who is who, a map of the church with instructions for children drop off and such, and an updated calendar with the contact information of the person in charge or the event, such as, the leader of the bible study that is held at someone’s house. I love especially when they come in cute little bags, but that is just me.
#4 The judging looks from members when I a visitor does not put money in the offering plate. I don’t think I need to state my reasoning for this one.
#5 Forcing the children to participate. Growing up in my church I was forced to do all their little cutesy songs and dances and I hated it. I was forced to get up in front of the congregation and sing their little songs. If there are children that would rather sit on the sidelines and watch, let them. Now, believe me when I say that I do not believe in letting children do whatever they want, but this was something really big to me when I was a kid and I still think about it from time to time.
Now to say what different churches I have visited have done right in no particular order I know a lot of these require a lot of volunteers, but they were still touching:
-Parking attendants that guide you to parking spaces in confusing or small parking lots
-Coffee! I love coffee and always appreciate the option
-Allergen-free communion options. This doesn’t affect me, but I have seen this offered and thought that it was really sweet.
-Greeters that greet with a smile and wait to see if a hand is given to shake
-Greeters that ask what brought the visitor in and physically guide them to an information table or the service area or introduce them to a church member that they can sit with. This one was big for me as I have a audio visual processing impairment so I cannot be pointed in the correct direction I need to be shown. Also the buddy system introduces the visitor to someone their own age and gender, in my case, and gives them someone they feel that they can talk to and ask questions. I generally re-visited the churches that did this.
– A service start countdown. I greatly enjoyed this because it allowed me to prepare for the service
– Church leaders that lead because they love it. I have seen too many people sit in seats of power because they liked the power, not because they loved leading.
I think that is enough rant. Thank you for listening if you did.
I wanted to amend and add a bit:
– Coffee! Whenever there is coffee I would make my coffee and idle around the area because it gave me something to talk about if someone introduced themselves. I am very socially awkward and I found that talking to people around the coffee area was a more comfortable way to meet people.
– Expectant mother parking. This doesn’t apply to me, but I thought it was a nice gesture if room allowed
– Having the visitor parking, or reserving the parking out front. At one of the churches I attended for years it was like a dog-eat-dog mad grab for the closest parking spaces. I always thought that it was a strange attitude to have. I also attended another church that had all of the early to arrive volunteers park behind the building to allow the front spaces to be left empty. I thought that was really nice.
Thom: This is an excellent article. Our church had a workshop about integrating newcomers last year, and all the To Dos/Don’t Dos really ring true with your survey results. A couple of things:
I’m an introvert by nature. Doing the “now turn and shake someone’s hand” thing, both on the giving and receiving end, feels contrived, awkward, and makes me want to crawl under a floor tile. This was one of the things on our “don’t do” things: do not single out visitors.
One of my pet peeves, both as a church-goer and a sometime visitor, is having all the “regulars” sit at the back of the sanctuary/classroom…so if I’m late, which as a visitor I’m statistically going to be, I have to either march all the way up to the front (insert the aisle that does not end scene here) in front of everyone (thus calling attention to myself, which I do NOT want to do, both as a visitor and an introvert), or crawl across a row of people. Please, for the love of all that is holy, leave seats at the back for people who either come in late, or are visitors and would rather NOT sit in the second row from the front on their first visit to your church! (Not to mention, if there are very small children involved, the closer to the back door the better, for less disruption and quicker exits as needed).
The other thing I’ll mention from our workshop: walk through your church facilities with a critical eye…through the eyes of someone visiting for the first time. Is there clutter? Get rid of it. Are the signs unclear? Make new ones/fix them. No signs? MAKE SOME! (Do the same on your website: Is your information on your website clear? Here’s one: don’t bury your service times in some obscure place on your website…don’t make me search for prime info!) Are the bathrooms cleaned and well-stocked? Does someone check on them before the service, to make sure that there aren’t any “awkward bathroom moments?” Has it been 20 years since you painted the inside of your classrooms and sanctuary? Spend the money, get paint, and get ‘er done. Is your bulletin full of clip-art and visual clutter? Less is more. When someone comes in looking for a classroom/bathroom/sanctuary, WALK THEM THERE!! Don’t say “it’s over there somewhere.”
This whole process involves “training” your congregation, to be attuned to newcomers/visitors and be aware of how they are seeing things/processing things.
These are just a few of the things I remember we went over at that workshop. They are simple things…easy to do, and not that complicated. But it goes a long way to making things comfortable. They ARE our guests…and just as we go out of our way in our homes to make our guests comfortable and taken care of, we owe it as the Body of Christ, to do the same for newcomers.
Excellent article.
Anne
You know, most of this list becomes a moot point if you have a house church. #10 wouldn’t, but the rest would. If we invested as much into our relationships with each other as we do into our programs, productions, and facilities, we’d really have something going on. But, we’re mired into this trap that we need to have curb appeal.
Here’s the problem, if you’re getting members because they were attracted for superficial reasons, then suddenly your church is full of just that–people who are attracted to superficial things. I’m not saying they can’t grow deeper roots, but you’re starting pretty shallow when you start with that. Which means that you have to continue to have superficial attraction for these people, or they’ll go where the grass is greener. Somehow, in other parts of the world, Christians manage to be Christians without complaining about anything on this list.
And, if you’re worried about attracting new people, who aren’t Christians, then you’re confusing evangelism with the functions that the church performs with each other, like teaching, edification, etc. I’m not sure you can easily do both at the same time, if at all.
I’m not sure why regulars are determined to keep “meet and greet” if they want the church to grow. It’s so uncomfortable! I’m surprised any unchurched people would ever return. Of course I shake hands in business situations, despite being left with someone else’s sweat or nasty handcream, I do this to make a living. In the worship service, it’s like being thrown into a popularity contest. I don’t shake hands with neighbors or acquaintances but will enjoy talking with them when it’s not forced. Having friendly greeters to answer questions and explain how to get plugged into a church is welcoming, as long as they don’t need to hug or shake my hand.
We pass the peace as part of our service. It follows the confession, so that having made peace with God we ask for peace/restoration with one another. Does anyone have experience with explaining this in a succinct way to help it make sense to first time visitors?
interesting…. sad but somewhat true…..
too much singing during “church”…..I feel this is what the Sunday School worship is for….its nice to have specials, but for some instance singing during church can take up half of the service….which means if the service is a strong one it puts it over the time limit…although there should not be a time limit on the “service” part, but heck my lasagna is burning, if you know what i mean.
Our “meet and greet” time works well for most it seems but we do it a bit different. We call it “family time” and put a 4 minute countdown on the screens. We briefly explain the point of this from stage, that it’s a time to catch up with each other, meet new people, and sometimes we ask an ice breaker question like “What’s your middle name”? Most of our folks really look forward to this time and expect now. You just have to be clear from the stage for new folks. People get scared and uncomfortable when they don’t know what to do. – Of course there are a number of folks who may not like this, but in the end you have to follow the Lords leading on what kind of church you’re going to be. You can’t and shouldn’t be “every church”. Different people have different needs. We’re all on the same team working for the same King.
I, too, hate meet and greet times….ESPECIALLY during cold and flu season….that’s why when we visit a church my wife always brings a personal size hand sanitizer in her purse.
Thom – One thing that is a major red flag for me… is the very first thing ,when the service begins, is pass around the collection plate. To me, it sets the tone and tells me exactly what the priority of church is… Money/business first. I do not go back…. so disappointing.
And…. yes, friendliness and simply feeling welcome is an issue. I’ve been to many Sunday services alone… 9 times out of 10 no one speaks to me. But will happily welcome a new couple or a family seated behind me and invite them to the coffee/treats after the service and whatever event is coming up next.
Thank you for the thought provoking material. I would humbly ask that you do a similar survey only asking something like, “What got you to stay at your current church?” As a minister this would be very interesting to me. Thank you again.
As I read it, the article is a basic report on a survey as to what makes first time visitors to a church, perhaps so much so that they don’t pay a second visit. Seems like a reasonable report.
However, I have to wonder about the numerous negative, defensive responses. Not only is there the statement in one form or another about how much they like it, do it for a good reason, etc. there’s the hint of criticizing the participants of the survey. It stops short of “How dare they not like what we do or worse, yet, it they don’t like it they don’t have to come back (though I picked up at least one hint of that).
Understandably, many of the respondent have probably been in church for so long and become so comfortable with doing things they way they’ve always been done and being unable to relate to someone new to church. That’s why such a survey could be quite valuable.
Come on! Would it not be wiser, more humble, and more compassionate to read the survey results with an open-mind and an interesting learning from it so that the church might find a new or modified approach to make visitors welcome?
High on the list for me is the church that puts first time visitors on their mailing list. This has happened to me at 2 different churches. Just because I visit your church doesn’t mean that I want to get your periodic newsgrams.
the whole information center thing kills me… we have no idea where to put one! The layout of the church is not conducive to having an easily accessible one. Our greeters give some information, but we would love to have more available… how to do that in a small space? Renovations are not in the foreseeable future.
You might be able to create a little portable information center. You know, like a cart with bins for flyers or information sheets. You can also go as fancy as setting up an ipad with an information video on top or as simple as a tri-fold presentation with any information you want to share. Then, every Sunday, you can wheel it out and place it in front of the church so that visitors can see it before they come inside. That’s just a thought.
What is sad is when you attend for weeks and no one notices you are there. When you have to make the effort to meet the pastor or other ministers there is something wrong. They should be the ones at the doors meeting people and they should be the ones making an effort to at least say hello. The church I was going to was very clickish and after some time they push you out…sad…..I understand church is not about the people, it’s about Jesus, but w/o fellowship, what is the point of going. I can read the bible at home.
TWELVE REASONS WHY I STOPPED ATTENDING ATHLETIC EVENTS:
• Every time I went, they asked me for money.
• The people with whom I had to sit didn’t seem very friendly.
• The seats were too hard and not comfortable.
• The coach never came to call on me.
• The referee made a decision with which I could not agree.
• I was sitting with some hypocrites – they came only to socialize and see what everyone else was wearing.
• Some games went into overtime, and I was late getting home.
• The band played some numbers that I had never heard before.
• The games are scheduled when I want to do other things.
• My parents took me to too many games when I was growing up.
• Since I read a book on sports, I feel that I know more than the coaches anyhow.
• I don’t want to take my children because I want them to choose for themselves what sport they like best.
You have an interesting list. Although I do not think that a church drives first time visitors away. The reason most first time visitors do not return is because they have not found the church that God wants them to attend. God guides us in everything we do, and that includes finding a home where our mind, spirit and soul are nurtured.
I disliked the meet and greets when I’ve been a guest in the past, especially when my children were small. For one thing, I don’t want to shake hands with 70 people while managing my children. Second, I don’t want strangers putting my children on the spot, and shaking hands with them. It’s uncomfortable for the children, and it’s unhygienic, especially for babies. It’s not like we can all duck out and wash our hands. Also, in churches that are not young in their demographic, people really come across as vultures swooping down on a young family. It’s been so long since they’ve had a young family in their church, they fawn over and smother you at such times. There were times when my family of six would have pretty much doubled the Sunday School dept. of some churches. There were times we felt the pastor wanted us to return just for the bump in attendance numbers. In my opinion, someone to let Mom know what is available should she have a diaper emergency, need privacy to breastfeed or calm an upset child would be more useful. And a congregation that doesn’t turn around and give a stressed-out Mom dirty looks when her children make noise would be helpful. If you want kids to be in church, expect that noise is going to happen, especially if there is no where suitable to go outside of service.
I would add another that turns off first time visitors — overcrowding.
And “overcrowding” doesn’t even mean 100% of the seats filled. To people sitting in a service, overcrowding is anything over 80% of available space. This includes parking and seating space.
A few years ago the pastor of the church I attended brought in some growth consultants and when they cited that finding I was surprised.
As the son of a pastor I know my dad LOVED it when the pews were filled and people were crammed in like sardines (Easter, Christmas, Homecoming Sunday). More people to hear the sermon he had worked hard preparing! What he didn’t realize were people were uncomfortable when crammed in like that for a couple of hours. Yes people might put up with it occasionally for special occasions, but it’s not good for long term growth.
Even over 80% of available seats filled makes people feel uncomfortable in a regular church service. Visitors come, then never come back. They need some breathing space. Yet pastors looking over the congregation think there’s still PLENTY of seats available, so there’s no need to take action yet. So, this is why some churches never grow. The church stays at the same 70% – 80% capacity forever…
When you reach 70% that’s when you need to go to additional services or a building program. Churches that don’t will be self-limiting.
Or plant a church with key leadership from your church giving your church room to grow and reaching others with the church plant.
Looking across both the original post and the comments, I think we do a lot of using the same jargon to mean completely different things. I think our most significant dichotomy is our notion of who a visitor is…
The visitors to a church will view the church very differently if they are already Christians or church-folks looking for a new church vs. people who have never set foot inside a church before. The first will be more concerned about matters of individual church culture (dress, music, sermon delivery, etc.) Personally, I am OK with a Christian who knows what (s)he needs in a church to visit once, know it isn’t a good match, and then visit the next.
Those who are coming from another religion or no religion or only have distant childhood memories of going to a really weird church a long, long time ago, are more concerned about what are these people about any cues if the visitor is genuinely welcome or not.
Picture walking into a mosque where you don’t know if people are friendly or how “service” goes or if outsiders are even welcomed to attend. Wouldn’t you:
–look for cues from people around you if you were really welcomed or interrupting some kind of closed circle?
–hope for some signage so you don’t stumble into some intimate prayer room when you wanted to take the kids to their area?
–worry a little if people ignored or were rude to you, but then suddenly on command, and for two minutes, they smiled and acted friendly (are they brainwashed?)
–feel kinda awkward to be pointed out from the front of church for being a visitor (is this good? bad? are they going to start following me now?)
–want to be sure your kids are safe in an environment that even to you is uncertain?
–look for information for other service times; are there smaller gatherings; is there something to help new people understand the procedures of service and safely ask what is going on?
I think as more and more adults from families that did not participate in churches check out church for a first time, we need to understand that besides being God’s “peculiar people” need to be better prepared to help people who have no previous understanding of who we are or what we’re about.
Thom, from the #1 reason… Could you be more specific? We often transition out of worship into our next segment of service by having the entire church greet someone before being seated. Does that fit the scenario you mentioned? Or are you referring to having the guests, specifically, stand and greet people?
I think that’s exactly what the author means. Could you imagine if you had to shake hands and look in the eye everyone you cross paths with in a restaurant or a grocery store? Being greeted at the door or interacting with a hostess is “normal”, but it would be strange for everyone in the restaurant to get up and shake hands with each other at some point during the meal.
Why not just socialize at the end of the service? I’m sure the 20 seconds of handshakes and fake smiles is a poor excuse for social interaction and nobody can really get in a good, “hey man, how was your week?” So maybe skip the tradition and just have the speaker start right away or have a little audio clip or dancing clown to break up the musical portion from the speaking portion.
Looking back I realize that my introduction to Christian churches happened in the best way possible. St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco. People were very friendly, they were not afraid to approach and say hello but they also understood how complicated it could all seem to a new comer (specially because their Liturgy is unlike anything else in the BEST way possible), and so they made sure no one felt out of place when it came to logistics while also making sure that being uncomfortable was a perfectly fine feeling to have.
I would say that what made St. Gregory of Nyssa so special was not the general actions they took in order to greet new comers but the fact that everyone in that church truly understood the importance and the meaning of listening. Everyone is different and everyone is welcome. There can’t be one general rule to be applied to such a rich array of humanity.
Listening is the ONE tool that makes hospitality a success. Too many churches fail at that and seem to be much more interested in making guests listen to what they have to say than in listening to the guests and their reason/need for coming in.
I visited a church where the pastor sent me a welcome letter and another one and another one and another one. He also sent me a Subway gift card. This was after just one visit. I found out he did that for every person who visited.It was like if he had nothing else to do.
How dare that pastor send you letters and gifts. How unloving of him!
you just don’t get it do u Karl?…You are quite the arrogance…don’t you see it’s not the gifts, it’s the motive behind the gift that is disconcerting…where is the love when my car breaks down or when my washing machine blows a gasket…or when illness hits? I’ve had elitist Pastors pass by me when I’m in need, dire need…but you know what? i demanded anomymity when i threw a hundred in the plate with good heart motive and no desire to be recognized…tell that to the Pastor who came to my house to pan out the water in my washing machine bc i was not well enough to do it myself, then turns and tells his deacon who was with him after the deacon asks is there anything we can do for this poor women, in which he replies…”no nothing”…gee Mr Pastor, what about some prayer….Karl, are you open to the fact and are you aware of the apostacy that is inside the church? or have you not become an object of prejudice yet? Your probably 3rd gen Pastors boy who hasn’t got a clue? Please hold you comments if you don’t’ want to acknowledge the sad but realistic truth about the modernist church who are out to take you money and could care less about the state of your soul or the many struggles the average person faces…Not one church has hung in there with me thru worse, or sickness…but no problem if it’s in heath and for better….check the vows of marriage then check the covenants of God…Pastors do not serve the flock, it’s the other way a round my friend…
I have only gone to church once, and the reason I never went back was not listed here. I was fairly young, and my friends invited my to what they said was a non-religious event at their church. However, at the end of the event, they had all of the kids that were brought there for the first time into a room where we were forced to sign something saying that we accept Jesus as our savior. Ever since then, I have had a very negative opinion of organized religion and will not go again. I’m sure that my experience has happened to a lot of other people too. To put it in more general terms – if a church singles out newcomers and attempts to force them to join them too quickly or in inappropriate ways, it will cause people to not only avoid that church, but likely all religion in general.
I had started going to a church one of my co-workers was very involved with and I did like going until we were talking one day at work and mentioned Easter was coming up and I wanted to come to his church. He told me his pastor called people like “me” C & E Christians. I asked what he meant by that and he said, “Oh, our pastor says we always get a lot of people come at Easter and Christmas and “those people” he calls C & E Christians.” I then asked, “your pastor said that?” after which he smiled and said yes. Needless to say, I believe I never went back.
Why would you take offense to something that is true? Thousands (maybe millions?) of professing Christians only go to church on Christmas and Easter. “Those people” are indeed C & E Christians. No need to take offense to that. It’s not an insult no matter how you take it….
I have heard the term “C & Es” many times and it usually is said in a negative tone. So yes, if I heard a pastor say that, I would be offended. I remember going to a Christmas midnight mass service years ago in a different church. You could hear the mumblings in the pews about “all these C & Es” packing the church so full that there was no where to sit (it was standing room only, but Christmas Midnight masses usually are extremely popular). To say the least, I never visited that church again. I have heard other priests (I am Catholic) making comments about “C & E Catholics” in the homilies and yes it is a turn off. Many Catholics, even if they are not regular church goers, tend to always go to Ash Wednesday service and receive ashes. There are usually some negative comments then to. Why pass judgement on others who may attend church only on holy days? At least they are there….
I do a lot better when “church” is just me and my family at home. Being an introvert, I am uncomfortable every single time I go to church, but it seems like corporate worship these days is geared towards engaging extroverts. The part where we stand and greet our neighbors is the worst. It kicks my social anxiety into overdrive. I don’t know what to say. And I know not alone. My son, who is nine, hates it. My mom, also an introvert, hates it. My sister can’t handle it, so she always heads for the bathroom. But because people like us – introverts – don’t speak up and let our churches know how uncomfortable we are (also with the other dozens of expected social and the implication that something is wrong if we don’t participate), the “Jesus loves extroverts best” ideal continues. And we just leave.
For me it’s about follow up. If a church takes the time to have you fill out a guest info request and never calls or visits then you don’t feel like they care one or the other. A generic mail out Thank you for visiting is not personal.
I’ve not heard anyone comment (or I admit did not read every comment) that said that you have small groups. At my church, there are hosts/hostess that will greet you with a “hi, glad you’re here.” But if you are a visitor and wanting to know more about the church, you go to the visitation station (our signs are labeled 🙂 ) or go online. If you want to get further involved and meet people, you join a small group in which you commit to 8 weeks of meeting once a week for the sake of relationship, community, and finding out more about God and those around you. I feel this is the most genuine way to find a group you feel comfortable with and also for those who need time to take it in before they join a group. Does anyone have anything like this?
Thanks for starting a dialogue about an important topic involving the church………..I found this list incomplete……..I like many people on here need to post a comment with my opinion, which is always right………enjoy.
1) Offering coffee and not letting people take it into the service area. Please just don’t offer the coffee.
2) Greeter with limp hand shakes. You are the first impression of the church. Do you want to be soft? Shake a hand like you mean it. No coddling.
3) Dear worship pastor, your skinny jeans may look cool, but if I can guess your type of phone based on the outline I see, too far. And I am probably not engaging in the songs.
4) Powerpoint. Please take an actual college class on how to use it properly. Just because its on your CPU doesn’t mean you should use it. Its called contrast, and it helps me actually read the text. And just because there are effects doesn’t mean they are usable. I don’t want to read ten verses that appear on screen letter by letter. If you are offended…….grab a jr. high student coming to your church and let them create your powerpoint for you. It will be way better.
5) Special Music. Singing is a talent, not a right. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. You KNOW what I’m talking about.
6) Time Management. Don’t blame your poor management of time on ‘the spirit is moving today.’
7) Telling people to turn off their phones because you want people to listen to what you have to say. Listen, if you are boring I’m checking Facebook and looking for another church with a good website. If this offends you take the time to become a better speaker and actually engage people.
8) Bulletins. Please don’t take time out of the service to read out loud what I skimmed myself when I sat down in 30 seconds. No I’m not a Christian, but yes I can read. See number 6, this may be your problem.
9) The color orange: carpet, pews, mic covers, suits, etc….terrible idea even in the 60s when it was in….I will not be coming back.
10) Church signs. ‘I saw your cool sign with a clever phrase and decided to come to church.’ said no one ever. Quit hiding behind your sign and do the job God called every follower of Christ to do and invite people you know to church. While I’m on the topic, leaving the Roman road business card for a tip at a restaurant is not a proper invitation. I will not be coming to church and this piece of paper does not help me pay my bills. Try tipping above and beyond and actually getting to know me.
What you said!!!
Wow. I must have totally skipped over the book of the Bible that demands churches conform to every church hopper’s preferences and style. What’s that book again? Oh…yeah. 1 or 2 Opinions or something? Thanks for giving consumerists more reasons to criticize churches who love God but aren’t primarily concerned about the firmness of greeter’s handshake and the color of the carpet…. Kudos.
Apropos “insider church language”, what is “signage”? Do you mean people that sign for the hearing impaired? Or do you mean someone who performs artistic sign language as a form of worship/interpretive dance? Or do you mean that the sign out front changes?
I mean – I attended church from my birth up to 22 years old, and the sign out front just said “Name of Church – Saturday 7:30pm – Sunday 9am – God Bless” or something. Maybe it changed once a month if there was something special like a concert or guest speaker, but that’s about it.
Steve, I don’t this article refers to the big sign out front. It’s about the signs in and around the church building/campus directing people where bathrooms, classes, information stations, and sanctuary are. Some churches are big, or have multiple buildings, and new people can get lost without directions, so the argument goes. Hence the cry for “signage.”
Meeting and greeting people is especially disconcerting during flu season. I always feel like the ushers should take people down the aisle and then offer then rubber gloves! Just leave me alone. I want anonymity. I want silence. I want reverence. The last thing I want to do is greet a stranger or a germ-carrier. Our 11am service is my time. Just leave me alone!
If the church was smart, they’d either have hand sanitizer available or just flat out say “shaking hands in optional” (you can give a polite wave and greeting). My church always does that during a bad flu season, it started with the H1N1 epidemic several years ago.
One of the biggest, without a doubt, surely must be the overhearing of negative talk, gossip, slights toward others present by church members along with the witnessing of clearly deconstructive whispering.
While looking for a new church, we encountered several problems that helped us make our decision. This list is pretty accurate. I think location, parking, frequency of services, programs offered, availability of mentoring or advice, acceptance of differences and involvement in charity are all big factors too. We decided never to return to at least two churches after rude comments were made by congregation members to me and my son when my husband wasn’t there.
So, what should we do with this information? Jesus regularly drove away “first time guests” by saying things like, “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” I suppose we must always do our best to make sure that it is the Gospel that offends and not our application of or practices surrounding the Gospel. And, we continually seek the Lord to perform the work of repentance in our hearts for relying on anything other than the work of the Spirit of God to build the church more than we rely on Him. But sometimes I wonder, if even in taking note of these types of analytics belies the deceptive nature of our own hearts to trust in them rather than in Jesus.
Are we too focused on pleasing those who may show up to our worship services and not focused enough on pleasing the One who is always there? Unless, of course, he isn’t (1 Samuel 4:21; Ezekiel 10,11)
I can totally understand that people don’t want to stand up to introduce themselves. I would do my best to sneak out if I caught wind of that. Nevertheless, I think that most people don’t understand the time of the peace. That moment is not about saying hello to your neighbor and for getting to know eachother. It is our time, after the act of confession, to embody the forgiveness that God has freeely offered. We are showing at that time that we have chosen, as Christians, to make peace with and love our neighbor.
As uncomfortable as greeting people you don’t know is, finding a church is about seeking a community to worship God with. That being said, sometimes church members get carried away at the Peace and use it as a time to socialize. The answer, in my opinion, is for church leaders to inform people of the significance of this time so that those over-the-top church members can modify their behavior and make it a safe space for all.
Late to the party, but here is my input to what turns me away from a church…
Too much pressure to get involved in something. “You like kids?!?!?!? You work in the nursery. Join the Choir….etc etc etc…”
And here is another one that REALLY burns my hide, and is almost at the point of driving me away from the church I attend now….
NOT HAVING ENOUGH CHAIRS FOR LATE-COMERS. COME ON, DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO PUT THEIR BIBLE ON A CHAIR AN HOUR BEFORE THE SERVICE STARTS SO THEY CAN SAVE THEIR FAVORITE SEAT?!?? YES, I AM SHOUTING.
You know what? Get enough people to do this and you can expect no one to show up, even if they are not late-comers. Grrrr, now I am really livid. Is it really that important that you sit in that EXACT chair EVERY Sunday. What about thinking about other people?
And NO, I DON’T want to be led into the middle of a group of people during opening worship to the one seat that is available.
How’z ’bout having enough chairs for people to sit on?!?!?!
Obviously this comment is aimed at churches with chairs instead of pews. Same could be said for pews.
We have stopped looking for a church. We’ve gone to so many where no one even speaks to us. Sometimes the person handing out the bulletins at the front door didn’t even speak to us. We attended one church here in our town for over 3 months and no one ever once asked us our names! We kept going only because of a sermon series that was being done that was really interesting, but then the sermon series was just stopped for some unknown reason, never finished and never mentioned again. It seems nowadays that when you go to church the people there expect you to be the ones to reach out and make yourself at home. There is no “let us love on you” attitude anymore, not like it was back in the 60s and 70s when I was a kid.
That is really sad. Back in Minnesota a few years back, I went to a well-known Baptist church one Saturday evening in downtown Minneapolis, and I stood right in front of the guy handing out bulletins. Didn’t even look at me. Was busy talking to someone else. He kind of handed a bulletin to me without ever looking at me. You know what I did? I wrote a note to the church office explaining what had happened. Never heard a peep from them. Not that I have to be acknowledged by everyone, but I would think that someone handing out bulletins should at least be more friendly.
The church that I attend has a half hour coffee meeting before service; and it also requires everyone to go around shaking hands and saying hello during the service.
Even though I have been attending this church for some time, I still feel really uncomfortable with this in-service routine.
I think coming into the church or leaving the service, or attending the coffee meeting, are the proper times to shake hands and say hello.
If I were to add to your list, I have a real problem with karaoke in church! I prefer hymn books and piano or organ. Mostly, because the karaoke is popular music, which I feel is best heard on the radio while driving, etc. Also, I really don’t feel that this type of music is very uplifting! Kind of ruins the service for me…
We’ve stopped going to church. Instead, we watch church services on TV. I never EVER thought that would happen to us, but we’ve been burned too many times. At one church, we visited three times. Each time, when we came out of the service, there was a note on our windshield that we were parked in the wrong area. And each time we parked in a different area. Plus, there were men on golf carts roaming the lot, and they could have directed us, but they didn’t. There were no signs, just colored curbs that apparently were coded in a way that only members could understand. We tried, we really did, but they made it clear that new people were NOT welcome there. So we bailed.
Some churches are so big that a major hike to the entrance is required, then another hike to the auditorium. And signage is there, but usually isn’t clear enough for visitors to understand. Visitors have no idea who the “Bumblebee Room” is for.
I don’t shake hands, so “meet and greet” usually devolves into my explaining that I don’t shake hands.
And if there’s a coffee room, please make it clear whether the coffee is free or if there is a charge for it. That can be very embarrassing to new people. I’ve seen it both ways.
So yes, I get it. I understand why visitors sometimes disappear after the first time. People are different. Churches are different. Hopefully people can find a church that works for them. But I’m done trying.
Grammy, it pains me to read a comment like this. While men have let you down (we always will), I hope you’re not done obeying God’s Word – “Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near” (Hebrews 10:23-25). Grace to you.
Denominational jokes are a strong turn off for me. Is it possible to respect others with different ideas? I’m usually looking for a sincere spiritual conversation by week two or three…I find authentic fellowship surprisingly mid dining from church congregations in my community.
One thing that drives me away is overly sentimental and tacky services. It is helpful to know that my faith is not something based on feelings or the latest trends but something truly substantial and timeless. Sometimes sentiment doesn’t address the real problems that the world faces. Jesus healed us by hanging on a cross. Sometimes churches need to address the nitty-gritty of Christian life, things like sin and spiritual combat. Anything that is glossed-over or artificial feeling will turn me off immediately.
And while I will definitely go to an ugly church if the service is worth it, it does help to have a beautiful church that is conducive to prayer and meditation. My particular denomination of Christianity really needs to get over it’s love-affair with modern art. Great for a gallery but not for a sacred space.
“Look to the person next to you and say…” or “Everyone hold hands and…” Not only do I NOT like to repeat a Pastor’s words (seems like mind control…lol) but you don’t know what he’s going to suggest you say to that stranger standing beside you. And holding hands? A hand shake is one thing, but actually holding hands is getting a little too personal for me.
Being directed by the worship leader on how to worship is an automatic turn off. People have different worship styles. If I’m being told I need to be more excited, that I need to raise my hands, jump, dance, sway, or express myself in any other way during a particular song instead of doing what I feel is right at that moment, then my worship becomes strained and I feel restricted. What’s weird is when a worship leader will stop in the middle of a song and complain that the congregation isn’t responding correctly… that they’re not “getting it,” and so they start again. Come on, really?
Here’s another one. If you don’t respond with an “Amen,” especially when the minister is making what he considers to be an important statement, then we’re told that we’re either not listening or we’re not comprehending what he’s saying. Actually the opposite is probably true. We most likely DO comprehend what he is saying and at that moment when the minister seeks confirmation that he is on track by listening for those “Amens,” our thoughts are probably focused on how the Holy Spirit is renewing our mind or changing our heart at that exact moment. Silence doesn’t necessarily mean boredom or confusion and a minister shouldn’t grade his sermon by how many “Amens” he receives. If I have to throw out an “Amen” to keep the minister going, that’s a turnoff and a distraction.
I’m surprised that political posturing wasn’t on the list. I’ve experienced that many times, and I feel it’s inappropriate. A church should be focused on God, not on worldly matters. Also, it makes me very uncomfortable. I was in a church once, where one of the members commented on someone winning the presidential election, and the whole place started cheering. I won’t say whom it was, but the person who won was someone I was adamantly opposed to. I felt like walking out. Even if I agreed with the comments, I don’t think it’s right, because it’s disrespectful to others who may not think the same way. I felt like they considered people not to be Christian if they disagreed with them.
Oh I have experienced that too. My grandmother’s church down South did that a lot. I go with her out of respect every time I visit her, but I am always so uncomfortable. In so many words, the pastor states you are not a true Christian if you do not agree with the said political points…going so far to quote things said and stories told on the the popular cable news channel (as if it were gospel). I always believed churches were not allowed to be outright political (to the point of endorsing politicians) but I guess that’s not true anymore.
I have read most of the comments, positive and negative. Being a staff member of a local Baptist church and serving in many churches over 40 years I would like to ask a question of whomever will respond.
If you were to visit my church as a first time visitor how could we as a church welcome you and make you feel welcome and wanted?
Keeping in mind that you are one of hundreds and in some cases thousands that may visit over a period of time to my church or others, how can we reach out to you and the others as well? Should we have many different types of ways to welcome to diversify our approach or can someone offer 1 way to reach many?
This is no way is intended to be sarcastic or taking a stab at any one comment. I truly desire to hear from anyone who has ideas. I am printing this article out as I type this. Reaching out is the purpose of our welcome time, not to just shake a hand. When members as well as guest walk through the doors of our church from a work week or days in this world……no one knows what they bring in with them in heart and mind and what they may need! From my personal perspective as someone already said…….I would much rather be an encouraging word and err on the side of grace!!!
I am a freelance writer who is currently writing a religion column for an online publication. I am in the process of visiting every church in my community (84 churches) and each church has their own friendliness personality. It’s my observation that people who sit on the perimeter of the sanctuary tend to be shy, introverted, anti-social, newer members, and often those carrying heavy burdens. Interestingly the visitor also sits on the perimeter of the room. It’s not surprising then that visitors are being greeted by people who themselves are uncomfortable those situation.
There is a fine line between respecting a person’s privacy and prying. I am a private person that has been to many churches. I don’t want someone calling me or asking me where I was last week when I didn’t show up for church. Some people want to be accepted into the flock while I prefer to go to church to worship God and learn from the teaching. My relationship with the Lord and how I worship is nobody else’s business than my own. Filling out the visitor card is like asking for unwanted contact in much the same way as getting spam emails!
there is a fine line between wanting to feel loved and cared for and pressuring one to become a member, which i don’t believe in…but then again, there are many things/practices the church is incurring that does not mirror the early church…with this said, i once attended a church while going thru tremendous crisis…if you could not notice the feelings of afflictions on my face, and the direness of it all, you were oblivious…well, come to find, many are which is evidence to me that the supernatural holy spirit is not active and moving or operational…and might i mention, it’s been a very long time since I’ve observed the gifts being utilized…i felt so lonely that day…overheard a group discussing plans to meet for lunch…many times I would stay seated after services had ended just dreading going home to a lonely space, seeing if anyone would notice…even staying in the lobby…and yes, believe it or not, sitting in my vehicle crying uncontrollably long after most had already left, hungry, broke, abandoned, desperate, but to no avail, nobody even noticed….my experiences with church have always been leaving church feeling ALONE!….While this might be an extreme example to most…well, lets just be frank and admit we are living in extreme times….for people will be lovers of themselves! this is also going on from withing the church walls…when will we “come out of her” and be seperate? when will we see the need for a building to house the poor instead of another dead church? in the last church i attended and haven’t gone back since…the Pastor PRESSURED the body into an over 1 million dollar new church bldg when they didn’t even need it!….I expressed my opinion of not agreeing with this vision and was swiftly excused to be an undesirable…I felt such a spirit of elitism and what they were teaching their body it was nauseating at best….Ministers…build a bldg for the homeless, feed them, care for them…for but just a day an hour or a week….but forever…we need spiritual food…we need love in a crazy broken desperate world !! “Come Out of Her”
Last weekend I visited a new church with my husband. They had the #1 special (stand up and greet each other) and I cringed at the thought…but they way they handled it set me at ease quickly. I had been welcomed and introduced before church to several people and the pastor himself made a point of greeting me before the meeting started. The first to greet me was one of the students from my husband’s school, then another person whom I’d already been introduced to…and it piled up from there. It was wonderful!!!
I’ve been going to church for a long, long time and I still hate “meet and greet” thanks to having social anxiety. I try to shake hands and smile at visitors (I really am glad that they’re there) but after that my mind goes blank and my tongue gets tied.
I visited a church once where there was a moment when you were supposed to *hug* the people near you.
In my case, the people near me were all male. I had tried to avoid that because…
I’m a survivor of several kinds of abuse — and rape — with PTSD, and had gone to church to try to find some sort of peace.
Only to have that church tell me I had to have full-body physical contact with a strange male.
The pressure to comply was intense…so, scared, I did.
Yeah, that didn’t work out so well.
I ran from the church and had a full-blown flashback outside. Thanks, church I don’t name, for causing me to relive that horror.
It took me over a decade to voluntarily go back into a church.
Sometimes, visitors to your church have reasons you can’t imagine for not wanting to participate in ANY kind of “meet and greet”, whether it’s during the service between different people in the pews, or before/after the service with a minister/pastor/church leaders/etc.
The old saying is you have seven minutes to make a first impression, and that includes from the time the guest (please don’t say visitor!!!) pulls onto the property. By the time a potential meet and greet time arises, the guest has already made a solid or negative first impression and likely decided whether or not they plan to come back.
This is a polar issue. I have seen it tweeted, pushed and promoted non stop for the last week, and what’s disappointing is that we’re both critiquing the church for not being friendly, and critiquing the church for *how* they are too friendly, when the reality is the culture of the church answers this question more than methods ever will.
I love this blog, I really don’t know that I have a proper or good response. But I do wish we’d move on from promoting it six or seven times a day, it’s been a little much for an issue that has no clear cut answer.
The ‘howdy doody’ time is really a time where churches are trying to manufacture friendliness. We try too hard to spell everything out for our churches, including telling them how and when to greet people. If we can find the magic pill that will make us friendly, then that’s what we’ll do. True friendliness does not happen in a few seconds. It happens in genuine, thoughtful conversations. Churches just need to learn to truly value people and care for them. If they really care, they’ll make sure to continue conversations long after service is over. They’ll intentionally make time for people during their busy weeks. They’ll cultivate life-long relationships that matter. None of that happens in a 2 minute (if that long) greeting.
Colonial architecture drives me away. Architecture that is Scandinavian, for example, urges me to stay or return. I like other kinds of architecture as well but barely know how to describe building types. I do notice and respond to it, however, and also when a church is primarily engaged in fundraising to build a new church or sanctuary, I feel too much time is lost in the brief hour or two that church takes. Another thing, in our childhoods, children sat in the front of the church and shined for the adults for five minutes before Sunday school started. When I have visited churches more recently, children sit center stage half an hour. Adults crave adult religion (opinion). An evening at church for adults might be indicated to make up for the occasional loss of adult religion on Sunday morning.
I have been in numerous churches both as a Pastor’s daughter and as a member. I loathe the meet and greet or whatever you may call it. It breaks up the flow of the WORSHIP SERVICE. Fellowship should take place before and after the WORSHIP SERVICE. I have invited people to my home for dinner. I try to greet strangers and people I know. Right now I am living in a small town and not attending church. There is too much extraneous fluff which goes on in most services. The church is the people, but the people are supposed to be WORSHIPPING GOD.
You can be a caring concerned church and also WORSHIP. If I sound bitter, I guess I am. It is ridiculous to run around the sanctuary trying to shake hands and connect with visitors, when some visitors would just like to WORSHIP. Not all visitors are unchurched. Some are trying to have a meaningful connection with God.
Hospitality means connecting with people outside of church. Socializing in the building, socializing in homes. Most “Christians” try to fit their obligation to be hospitable within the hour or two on Sunday morning. Epic fail. If you don’t care about people the rest of the week, then you aren’t doing your job.
Namaste.
Church members having cliques. You get invited to Bible study and during a discussion they ask if any one has any input. You speak and suddenly every one stares at you like you just committed a mortal sin. A member states “Sorry I invited her.” and another said “She does not belong in our ‘group’ “. So immature.
Most of these ring true for me as well. As an introvert, I hate do not like pointless interaction, and as mentioned, this time seems to be not as sincere.
In addition, the music is important to me too. I moved to a new city to work as a bilingual parish secretary, but soon discovered that I could not actually join that church as a member. The music at the Mass was not what I look for in a church. It was so embellished and contemporary (not that contemporary is necessarily bad)…I don’t go to Mass to go to a concert. The Spanish Mass is beautiful and I enjoy going there occasionally, but it’s different culturally of course and I don’t think I could quite get used to it. But I think I’ve finally found my parish.
I am so GRATEFUL for Christian people who loved me and embraced me the first time I went to church. I liked it so much, that I stayed for 40 years… have experienced many trends and service styles that have come and gone, but the one thing that has always been present and still remains are the things that keep me going to church. . .
1. Friendly People. . . if a handshake or a friendly gesture from a stranger helps me feel human acceptance and care, I am intrigued and willing to stick around for more. . . maybe someone I meet will become a lifelong friend. That has happened.
2. Meaningful Teaching. . . a bible teaching that helps me connect meaningfully with God and helps me in my spiritual journey as a person.
3. Good Food. . . those old fashioned church potlucks were the best. . . more was discussed over Aint Bees tuna casserole than in most church service I’ve attended.
4. Realization. . . people will always find something to complain about, some with legit input and others just unhappy people. Fortunately, this is America, and there is probably a church down the street that will meet their “needs” much better if they don’t like the style, brand or flavor of ice cream being served. I’m hoping that if something is really “OFF” in the gathering that more than one person will bring it to a leader’s attention.
5. Personal Opinion. . . our Western View of Christianity is a little skewed… it has become about US, ME, and WE, as though we are trying to persuade people into connecting with God with our great programs and worship styles. In cultures where Christian persecution is at an all time high, church gatherers are not worried about whether we stand up during music time, or “meet and greet” strangers, or whether the pews are red crushed velvet, or folding chairs. Gathering together is much more about meeting with God, than personal comfort. And most converts happen in the market place where Christian people are functioning in the power of the Holy Spirit, and not reliant on the corporate gathering to replace a believer’s responsibility of helping others connect with God.
6. Highlight. . . the friendliest person at church was the parking lot attendant. . . every week he’d gracefully show me where to park and greet me with a smile while doing so. . . I felt welcomed and loved before I ever got to the building.
What do you think about this? At the beginning of a worship service (Welcome to Guests) a pastor asks guests to raise their hands so that an usher can bring them a guest card. Positive or negative? Any suggestions?
If these people prefer to have a light scenting scent, all they have to do would
be to apply merely a little squirt. Or will certainly we state, exactly how a lot more powerful the perfume ought to be worn. So, for those and
have the greatest ladies scent, then you would certainly like others in order to scent this.
Great points. For me, numbers 1, 2 and 4. I am an introverted person, so it is not a good idea to try and make me stand up in church. I am uncomfortable with it because I don’t like being singled out or put on the spot for members to pounce on me after the service. #2 is pretty obvious. When people are over friendly, but don’t take the time to learn something about the person, they are probably faking the nice attitude. If a church wants their visitors to get information on the church, it should not be forced. Information about the church, should be readily available and visible for visitors to see and pick up as they choose. The ushers should not be overly eager to give pamphlets to visitors. I say this because, it always felt like they were forcing me to join. As far as services go, there are a lot of things that make a service good or bad. It could be that the clergy didn’t stay on the real point to relate to the readings, or the people in the congregation were distracting to the people around them. I don’t how many clergies have mentioned money in their sermons. I think that bringing up money in a church service is tacky. Visitors do not want to hear about the church’s money woes, or being guilted into giving money to the Youth Group.
My aunt and uncle have experienced #9 when trying to return to a church that they attended for years. They just stopped going for whatever reason, and later decided to give it another try. When they returned to the church after how many years, they were forced to move because they were in someone’s seat. How are they to know that. Needless to say, they did not keep going back to that church.
I would also like to add that churches should not ask too many personal questions. If visitors are asked what church they came from, that should be okay. But, it should not be an opportunity for people to either slander other churches or the person for never having attended. If a visitor was brought by a member of the church, the friend should not be too eager to show the visitor everything at once, or criticize their visitor for not being interested. From my experience, it is mind boggling, and overwhelming. My friend who has done this is guilty of not showing respect for other people’s religious beliefs, at least where I stand. She has always been prejudiced against any non-Christian as well as Catholics. I am not sure, but that could be why she has always knocked herself out trying.
I just visited a “church” for the first time this morning. There is no sunday school, but 3 services each Sunday. The one I attended had appox. 100 members (people) present, overall dressed like Wal-Mart shoppers amongs an overwhelming amount of Christmas decorations. Communion was the emphasis with passing by tables set up, hearing an elder recite passage and partaking of the “supper.” All, including children participated. I felt like I was standing at a sample stand in Sam’s. I have had much stress and needed to be comforted by the Holy Spirit AND other spiritual brothers and sisters, however, no one shook my hand, spoke to me or even nodded their head making me wonder if I was invisible. I have that “church” in my prayers!
Perhaps (in my opinion) a more meaningful poll would have been what attracted people who DID return and why. Doesn’t the Scripture tell us to transform the world, not conform? It is sad when people do not return, more so if they do not have another church. But it is glorious when they do return, more so if they are lost or unchurched – that is what we should focus on.
Yes, because Twitter polls are so scientific and accurate…
Thom, I’ve noticed a trend in your writing and web presence – you publish some list based upon some undocumented, unscientific data collection, and tout it as the latest brilliant discovery.
Thom, I usually agree with and can follow the sentiment of most of your writings and “findings”, mainly because they’re old news – read john Maxwell, Bill Hybels, or Reggie McNeal of 10 or 15 years ago, and all of these blog posts will seem like retreads.
This would all be no big deal and could be passed of as a writer’s desperate but harmless attempt at trying to generate “buzz” for their brand…but I don’t think it’s harmless.
As a church consultant, I know the unfortunate tendency of many. Church leaders to chase after the latest trend that strikes a chord with them. They do this, bolstered by writings such as yours, sometimes to the detriment of their church, when what they SHOULD be doing is proper research, then proper contextualizing into their own, UNIQUE community before ever adopting a stance or making changes.
As a pastor in full time pastoral ministry, may I exhort you to display a little more wisdom in your published writings. While they may spark good discussion and be basically founded in good intentions, I fear for the harm they are quite possibly doing as well, and I can’t believe you would choose to promote your brand over the health of churches and church leadership across our country.
Wow. This comment has to be one of the most bitter I have ever read. It’s sure not based on facts. Thom’s articles are in no way retreads of Maxwell, Hybels, or McNeal. I have read most of their books, and you are just plain wrong. By the way, millions of readers tune in to Thom’s writings because they reflect wisdom, whether they are informal polls or his own experiential opinions. He is getting at the heart of local churches, and I am grateful for him. His “brand” was established many years ago. He has nothing to prove. He sure understands contextualization, contrary to your assertions. He has never touted something as “the latest brilliant discovery.” He presents it with humility and class, unlike your comment. You say you are a consultant and pastor, yet you hide behind the anonymity of a first name. I would like to know more about you to see what your credentials are. I certainly don’t fear for the harm of Thom’s writings. They are incredible contributions to the body of Christ. I fear for the harm of petty and bitter comments like yours. I wish your comment would be deleted. It is there where the real divisiveness lies.
Hey Scott, tell us how you really feel. You seem to be holding back, I mean, quit being so shy already and let loose. Unleash the hellfire and brimstone already, sheesh!
If you hadn’t noticed yet Scott, the church and it’s leaders (yeah, you) are apostate! Blind guides leading blind guides! I’ll bet your the bearer of the “black-list”…are you also the one in the back room counting the plate money?…oh, to be a fly on the wall in that room is something I’ve often wondered about…
This is a good read. When I was growing up I was in a group home for a little while. We would go to a different church each Sunday. And a lot of them we decided not to go back to based on judgement. Two I remember very clearly. One of them played extremely loud music and I was about 9 and I had bad migraines a lot so I laid my head down instead of standing while the music was on. The pastor called me out during service and embarrassed me. We never returned. The second time the pastor also called us out. At our group home we had to be back for lunch at a certain time. So we quietly snuck out a few moments early and the pastor stopped his sermon to say “if we were just going to leave early, don’t bother coming at all.” So I guess my number one reason is really being called out and embarrassed.
I don’t know meet and greets have often been my favorite time in services guest or not.
The main reason’s I have not returned to churches?
Not in order of importance
1) Did not feel welcomed. No one said hi, no one seemed happy or excited to see me. I felt invisible.
2) environment felt really judge-y
I don’t mean for people to compromise biblical teachings but there is a fine line.
3) message was really off base biblically/ members not encouraged to read bible or check for themselves.
4) pastor/ elders seem ‘rich’ while most congregation seems poor/ constant emphasis on ‘obedience’ is ‘giving’.
5) pastoral /elder hypocracy / lack of tansparency/ or seeming lack of some sort of accountability
6) weird clicks.
7) terrible service times. Like bizzarly early… Or goes on and on and on once attended a service went on for. Like 6 hours and then they kept giving people guilt trips if they wanted to go.
8) a church felt more cult like. Than church like. Doesnt happen often for me, but has on occasion:/
9) rude/ gross people. Please dont try to shake my hand after you just blew your nose….
10) members wore wayyyyy too much perfume, or some kind of scented thing made me allergic and I could barely breath.
11) no place for my kids. And where to plug in. By plug in I mean there is no place for me to become a part things. No where to volenteer, no programs or services for our family to put in to get more out. I probably worded that terribly.
12) and sometimes I am just visiting an area.
The Spirit of Jesus is not there.
Fascinating responses here… to me, anyway. I must be one of those rare folks. When I visit a church, I tend to gauge the friendliness of a church by how many people come and introduce themselves to me. The meet and greet time, to me, is simply an opportunity to either a)go out and get to know some folks so I can get started building relationships, or b)an opportunity to sit back and see how friendly the church is by how many folks actually approach me and introduce themselves. I’m not looking for a long conversation, but I am looking for folks to pursue me a little, and seek to get to know me. Which I do depends on my mood for the day, as well as the vibe I’ve already gotten since arriving.
I sure am glad that Christ sent someone who was genuinely burdened for my soul and as a result shared the plan of salvation with me. If she would have been more concerned with the “order of a worship service” rather than following the Great Commission I would still be loss today. I rejoice that the Alpha and the Omega, the Lord of Lords and Kings of Kings didn’t come up with as many reasons not to tug at my heart and save me as I am reading about “excuses” for not wanting to worship and praise Him in a church setting. Follow the example He set for reaching the masses and I believe we will be so overwhelmed with His Glory that these “excuses” will quickly disappear. Are we just playing church or being the church He has called us to be?
What about greeters who don’t greet them because they are too busy chatting with someone they know
Some people don’t come to church again? Maybe they liked everything and nevertheless just don’t want to come back! Some churches think, if they did everything poerfectly (toilet clean, signs at the carpark, dustbins everywhere, information-desk with friendly smiling ladies, and so forth), then people would turn to Jesus in masses. I don’t think that this is right. When I came to Jesus, the church there was very small, very poor, stayed in a very old house with very old toilets, but the sermon was right and the church was a praying one. That’s the difference to rich modern churches. Modern churches don’t pray any longer.
Most Americans have the social skills of a turnip. Why, in church, do people “greet” each other by just smiling and shaking each other’s hand? That’s is severe social retardation. What ever happened to an introduction? Or are American “Christians” so narcissistic that nobody else except a select few are worth actually meeting? It’s really ridiculous. That is one reason American Christianity is a complete farce. People don’t even care enough about other people to ascertain their name. And to make matters worse, they act stunned when you tell them your name. Sounds like empty clanging bells to me.
church is not what church ought to be…and more congregants would recognize this if they were more in tune with scripture…there are many issues but some of the ones in the forefront of my mind are:
1 poor delivery of the gospel – seeker sensitive
2 prayer … very deficient
3 music…loud and long
4 plate passed every Sunday but the Lord’s Supper doesn’t’ seem to be as much a priority
5 announcements…who cares!
6 yes, greeting one another is not necessary…i feel very awkward, why is this done?
7 church a lonely place to be….even with the greet one another session! i walk out alone at the end every time…no one invites me to their luncheons
8 visitor cards are just another way you are pressured into organized religion…i have filled tons of them out and no one ever visited me…
9 membership! this is one very corrupt practice….bc if you are not a member..no one will help u or care for you when your ill…only member services churches..i’ve not met one who doesn’t require it if you need help…so sad!
10 Preachers….i could list 20 just under this heading…instead of being servants unto the flock, you have turned your flock into being your servant…tithing, paying for ministers salaries….i’ve given hundreds of dollars and not one church ever helped me in a crisis….which brings us back to the membership…church is nothing more then a social hookup and club with fringe benefits for members who pay! that is it in a nut shell
We are nothing mirroring the early church! I’ve been ill and struggling for years on my own…and all the church has ever wanted from me is my money and they could care less about my soul !!
First I think Christians who are truly born again need to understand that, if possible, people should be witnessed to and hopefully, get saved before they come to church. Then when they come to Church they should feel the witness of the Holy Spirit and feel like they are a part of the body of Christ. Unfortunately, too many Pastors have the attitude that as long as their bills are paid and they have money in the bank, that is all they really care about. Also, you need to ask the question, why do you really want the Church to grow? Is it because you really love and care about lost humanity? Do you just want more people so the tithes will increase? So you can build your dream off the backs of hard working Americans? Whenever I go out in public with my wife to a restaurant there are some people who are actually too ashamed of the Gospel to even say a prayer over their food! Some Churches do nothing but “scream and shout” and make a lot of noise, but they are in reality just a tinkling cymbal or sounding brass! Many of these “holiness-Pentecostal / charismatic/ conservative / calvanistic type people” are actually just religious bigots and you would never find a person in their services that is anything else but “white”! There are many people who claim to be Christian but they are really just religious people who are eternally lost! They don’t pay tithes or support missions at all yet they claim to believe in the Great Commission! Some Churches have become havens for people who have allowed their belly to be their god! And of course they attract people of a like spirit and are very cliquish! Some religious people are so mean they will send you to hell just by looking at you! The only person who can truly change a Church is the man behind the pulpit, and if he does not do the work of an evangelist like he’s supposed to, then nobody else will either. The Pastor cannot be a pencil-pusher and expect the Church to grow! He must lead by example as Paul commanded. He must give himself to prayer, fasting, and the ministry of the Word, and do the work of an evangelist. Some Pastors are afraid to preach the Word because they are controlled by the “board”. The only thing that will change the backslidden Church in America is persecution. Perhaps some of the 10,000 refugees from Syria who are coming to America will actually be members of ISIS?
When I was ushering in my church. I now consider the best way to make new guest feel welcome. 1. offer friendly welcoming guidance 2. Be prepare to give an explanation why you love your church 3. Offer guest to introduce them to the Hospitality Minister or Presbyter. 4. Offer guest a brief description of registering in the Parish 5. Now it passes to the community of believers to welcome and find out if there is any need that can be addressed by the parish. 6. For the community to focus on new members and to encourage them to keep and be part of the community. 7. Allow the member to be part of the community based on need 8. Encourage member to the history and tradition of the parish and why things are done in such a way and welcome suggestions
Relating to #7, which relates at least as much to new or nearly-new members, after an announcement that requires a response or may require more info, “For more information, contact Mary” or “If you can help, contact Susan.” (Who is Susan, or Mary? and even with a last name, a visitor or new member won’t know who or how to contact her.)
my daughter and i went to a church for first time yesterday at least 10 people greeted us and at the end of the service they gave us 2 big chocolate bars.
I am so glad I am Orthodox.
Thanks for posting. The best way to welcome guest to a Church meeting is by showing the Love of God with sincerity!
A “stand-up and greet” where everyone stays in their seats, and lasts for less than two minutes might be tolerable. However, when church members are circulating among the seats, and we newcomers are standing there having already said hello to the 3 people around us… while the regulars are exchanging small talk and what’s going on in their lives for even 5 minutes seems an interminable time. Besides, that seems like conversation that should take place before or after the service.
“Unfriendliness”, like when you come in a few minutes before the service and no one will allow you a seat. This happened to me at the same church the last two weeks in a row. I had to leave, go out into the foyer and into the other set of doors to get myself a seat. No ushers? When I sat down, a lady separated by me from a single empty seat turns to say hello to two rows behind us… totally ignoring my presence. I have not visited this church 3 times in as many weeks, and other a half dozen times in recent months. The pastor has never been present to greet after the service, to ask if I have any questions or to inquire about me or my interest in his church. I filled out a form in my first 3 visits, and never received a call from him then either. What am I? some kind of a freak? 🙁 Or is it because I’m a single woman no longer young — perhaps that makes me a freak.
3. The “information” booth which they had the first few times I went to visit was never manned.
4. I’ve spent years trying to find a church whose theology I could align AND was within a reasonable distance from home… I was so excited… but now I just give up… what a waste of time… I’m not even sure if I believe anymore anyway… losing my religion.
*in above comment, i meant to say i “have” visited in as many weeks not “not”, oops
RE: the “Stand up and greet one another”. Standing up and watching the church members greet each other instead of me.
The “If you’re new today, stand up so we can all welcome you” – TERRIBLE! And then to be IGNORED during the “Stand up and greet one another”, and again IGNORED after the service because the church members are all too busy greeting each other some more.
Great
This is my first time i visit here and I found so many interesting stuff in your blog especially it’s discussion. Thank you so much for sharing this great blog. Keep it up.
Saying “good morning, nice to see you,” is fine.
I can’t stand being asked to turn to the person next to me when neither of us knows the other.
I do not want to turn to the stranger in the next row and introduce myself because the man at the front says so. I’ll do my own introductions in my own time or in response to a person.
A friendly, “hello,” is okay, but I am not going to let someone pepper me with questions when they don’t know me, ever again. Don’t pressure me with your endless questions!
I am not unfriendly, and I do smile, but maybe I am in the church because I’m having a hard time and want to sit quietly.
Possibly, I secretly don’t believe I should sit in church with all the good, happy, people who never do wrong.
I like the music, worship/hymns. The less proficient, more amateur it is the more I like it, has a sweetness, not polished, is pure, from the heart.
Basically, I don’t like sermons. I’ve messed up and I feel terrible from the Pastors message, not freed by it. I don’t want to listen to anymore sermons. I listen to worship music on Youtube, some of it is lovely.
Many church web sites are not updated, not current, not even the current year. They lack information. Something interesting about God might be nice, who He is, what He sees in us.
It is difficult to get questions about God answered. Church people don’t seem to want to talk about him, they want to ask personal questions. I’d rather you talked about the heart of God or something . Although, maybe not His wrath and my sin. I already know about that.
Maybe I will find the courage to go to a church or church group again, but the second I feel suffocated by false attention, or don’t feel safe I will run out of the door.
The odd thing is, when I went to a church a couple of times, I joined others in the coffee area afterwards. I smiled, was not unfriendly, drank my coffee and stood alone. There are two extremes, either you get mugged or ignored. I’d rather be ignored.
If I want to find fault in a church I will surely find one . I can be petty if I want to but I asked myself how hungry am I to serve Jesus . When I look at my brethren that are persecuted in other countries and the world even United Nations are at best silent about it . I will serve Him and love Him and if the church has faults in my opinion I will pray ( we do sooooo little) to make sure my attitude in not in the way .
When I was in college a good friend invited me to a church Christian group he helped lead. When I showed up he took me around and introduced me to his friends — and hung out with me the entire meeting when he wasn’t up speaking. I was very well received into that group and I loved it.
Later, at another University, I was invited to a Christian group. This time, when I showed up, my “friend” did not take me around and introduce me to people. He didn’t had time for me himself, and I found it a little hard to break into the groups around the room and get to know anyone.
The leader of that group invited a guy, who played on the football team, to a social. I introduced myself and said “hi” but hardly anyone else would speak to him. Maybe people were intimidated by his size? The group leader did not go over and talk to him, and did not take him around and introduce him. Of course he did not come back. And the leader got up, at a later meeting, and told us that we needed to be friendlier.
I tried a number of small churches in the Sacramento area. The one that I liked made me feel “included”. A family seated next to me noticed I was new, introduced themselves, and invited me to eat breakfast with them after the service at a restaurant that most of the church ate at. It was a very friendly sociable church.
I tried other churches where I felt like people were thinking “Who is he? And why is he here?!” They seemed intent on grilling me and finding out if I was really a Christian. And of course all of their Bible studies were full..
I attended a Newman Club (catholic) show in Salt Lake City. They had singers, musicans, magicians, dancers, etc. It was a relatively small group, but it was very entertaining. Afterwards we went out for pizza. I got in line behind the guy and the girl who hosted the show, introduced myself and complimented them on the show and went to sit down at the long attached tables with them and the rest of the group. They stopped me and told me “These seats are taken.” and they directed me to an empty table — where two other new guys joined me. I didn’t go back.
I too was feeling shy about offering my hand in peace to people nearest me in church, but I ‘sucked it up’ and pushed myself to do this with a smile and a nod.
It has become easier during the two plus months of not missing a day of the ‘4-day a week’ early morning Mass, but what has made it more difficult than it should be is that I feel as though I am tolerated on the fringe of this small, faithful group, but not accepted.
There have been two member’s in the past month who have had birthdays, blessed by the Priest, and celebrated by ‘everyone’ going out after Mass for breakfast.
Needless to say, I have not been included in the invitation in fact, I have never been approached by the any of the parishioners, or introduced to the Priest. I have learned first names by hearing them said when others have offered them the “sign of peace”.
My daily solitary walk from the church to the parking lot is getting to feel very long and lonely.
In all fairness, it has been many years since I attended church, but I am now officially a ‘senior citizen’ as are most of the 8 women regulars at this early morning Mass.
I initially felt comfortable with the thought that a small group of mature individuals would have amassed an understanding by now of what it feels like to be excluded; but I was wrong.
No matter, the ‘bottom line’ is that I am welcome in this small church by God himself.
Only He knows the peace and joy that I feel when I commune with Him, but it is a fact that people generally have a great need to feel accepted within a group; how much it would mean if even one of those women had extended an invitation to me so that we could get to know and perhaps feel more comfortable with one another.
I can only think that they feel that they can’t stop me from coming to “their” church, but that they don’t have to actively encourage me.
I can most certainly understand anyone who stops trying because it hurts to be excluded by other humans, or, who continues on in the hope that ‘one day’ they will be accepted and shown hospitality of the kind Jesus himself would approve of.
Great points!! Not having a place to get information about the church is a big one!
– Zach
http://www.textinchurch.com
Thanks, Zach. Someone recently introduced me to textinchurch. I love the resource!
I’m experiencing cognitive dissonance between #1 and #2.
The “top ten” list was informative.
When my siblings and I were small, our parents were lay leaders in the churches of which they were members (five different locations between 1944 and 1962) and they anticipated that we, too would be leaders, if for no other reason that we might be “missionaries” in the sense of going to places where there were few or no Christians and we might live there for a year or more at a time. Accordingly, our parents instructed us to always think about how a visitor might respond to what was said and done in church buildings. They suggested that, whenever possible, we sit next to an empty space in the pew and imagine what kinds of questions a visitor sitting there might ask about the meaning of what was said or done or the reasons for doing things as that congregation does them.
In addition to the items on the “top ten” list, here are things that make it difficult for me to invite visitors.
Pastors or Sunday school teachers being dogmatic about passages of scripture being interpreted as allegorical. It doesn’t bother much if passages are interpreted as allegorical but I have found that some preachers can be as dogmatic about that as other preachers are dogmatic about interpreting passages “literally”. My advice: preach with conviction but without the dogmatism. There is a difference.
Pastors preaching a political sermon. For the benefit of everyone and especially visitors, it is better to teach biblical principles and let the members and visitors decide for ourselves whether or/and how to apply those principles in the political arena.
Greeters with high squeaky voices. Even if the friendless is genuine, high squeaky voices can put children off. Adults too sometimes.
Telling people what to do. This takes many forms but the most common is telling people to stand or sit or to turn to a hymn in the hymnal or to a Bible passage. It is possible for even lay members to be taught how to make every such suggestion as an invitation and do so in such a manner that the person in the pew will be comfortable participating or observing as he sees fit. Some pastors seem to need validation almost as much as they need a salary. This often takes the form of saying “Amen?” several times in each sermon. An extreme form of this problem was the pastor who told me he can tell what a person’s “spiritual condition” is by how that person responds to that pastor’s preaching.
While we are on the subject of congregations in general and visitors in particular being told what to do, telling people they should attend worship services regularly needs to be included on that list. Yes, we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together but that isn’t necessarily a reference to assembling in a church building. When that advice was written, Christians didn’t have church buildings as such. I my not-so-humble opinion, they didn’t even have formal worship services, much less the liturgical types of services some congregation have in the twenty-first century.
Too many prayers. Don’t get me wrong. I pray. I encourage people to pray. I teach people how to pray. Prayer certainly should be part of any worship service. But people in general and visitors in particular can get the impression that church leaders think God will hear them because of their much speaking. It is appropriate for someone to invite the Lord’s presence at the beginning of the service. It is appropriate to ask the Lord to bless the offering. It is appropriate for each service to include a “pastoral prayer” wherein a more extensive thanksgiving is included than in the other prayers and a more extensive list of requests is tendered. (Even the pastoral prayer can be too long.) But if there is a prayer of invitation for the Lord to attend our gathering and a longer pastoral prayer before the sermon, what impression does a visitor get when the pastor (or other speaker) seems to think that those prayers weren’t enough and he has to pray again at the beginning of the sermon (or, worse yet, begin addressing the congregation and then stop to offer yet another prayer)?
Attempting to include a mini-sermon as part of a prayer. This often takes the form of, “We know that…..” as if the Lord doesn’t already know what we know.
Adding a phrase at the end of a prayer that the typical non-Christian will utterly fail to understand. The most common one is “…in thy name amen.” Jesus did instruct us to pray in his name but what does that mean? He also taught us to pray to our heavenly Father. In which case, to pray in Jesus’ name is to ask that our heavenly Father do things for us for Jesus’ sake that Jesus does deserve but that we don’t deserve. If the prayer is addressed to “God” or “Our Father who is in heaven”, it makes sense to end the prayer with the phrase, “…for Jesus’ sake.” My wife and I have a 92-year-old friend who is a retired pastor. He often ends his prayers with the phrase, “…for we ask it in the name of our wonderful redeemer.” Now that’s something most visitors can understand.
The “every head bowed and every eye closed” syndrome. I’m not opposed to inviting visitors to make a first-time profession of faith during a worship service but HOW that is done often leaves much to be desired. Appeals to emotion may be “effective” in the sense of persuading people to do things–and I’m an emotional person so I don’t mind if people express their emotions during a worship service. Manipulating people’s emotions so the preacher can have more notches in his belt, however, drives more people away from the Lord than are attracted thereby.
Too much time between the parts of the service. This can be mitigated to some extent by keyboard musicians who can use music to “tie together” the various parts of the service. It is better, however, to simply minimize the time intervals. If the next thing after a prayer is a “special” musical number by a soloist or small group, for example, it is better for the musician(s) to be ready to step onto the platform right after the prayer than for them to wait to be “introduced”. If the congregations thinks it is important to provide information about the musicians, a note in the bulletin should suffice. I wonder whether some of the habits of some congregations were developed years ago when one or more “leaders” thought people would think they were shortchanged if the worship services lasted less than an hour.
Members sitting in the ends of the pews so visitors who don’t arrive early have to climb over people to find a seat. There are all kinds of good reasons to want to sit at the end of the pew instead of in middle but members who do so can at least pay attention to how many other people arrive and move to the center of the pew as needed. Failure to do so gives the visitors the impression that the members think of themselves as more important than the visitors.
Today I went to church for the first time since I was 12 years old, so it’s been 13 years. What’s funny is the sermon was about Luke 14:15 and seemed really relevant. Also the pastor was talking about that story from a year or so ago where that grandma accidentally texted some random kid when her grandson changed his number over Thanksgiving and ended up inviting him for dinner.
The pastor asked me to stay for the lunch, so I went in the other room and made a plate. He must have been busy because I never saw him and nobody spoke a word to me while I sat at a table alone while everyone else talked with each other. I left my plate and I’m just sitting here in my car at home now…
#11. Have to stand through a 30 minute deafening rock concert falsely described as “worship” before the sermon begins.
#12. The topic of the sermon is “God wants you to give us all your money because we need a new parking lot.”
Yes, end the formal greet and meet time. Continue informal meet and greet time.
What is truly indicative here is that #1 amounts to, “You’re too friendly” and #2 amounts to “You’re not friendly enough.”
These may be helpful because it is always good that the Church does not grow “deaf” to the ones we want to reach and serve. Christ steps out of the boat in Mk. 6 and lays aside his own human needs (i.e. he’s tired) because he has compassion on the people. If we are to emulate Him, then we need to understand that not everyone will respond to our actions the same way – despite the best intentions.
That said, the Biblical Church is NOT anywhere in the NT focused on what “outsiders” want during the gathering of the Saints. The communal gathering together of the Body is a celebration of the Resurrection for building up the Saints to be sent out. The perspective of the gathering on as the Body as an evangelical outreach event is a result of Finneyism and Revivalism and is a relatively modern (i.e. 200 years) artifact that has produced anemic and false believers who can’t reach the lost because they have not been built up themselves.
So while there is nothing sinful here, and it may be useful for diagnosing a problem, this information provides no answers for how we become better ambassadors for Christ – except where we corporately discuss how we constantly fail to love others with them first in our mind (genuinely) and then we celebrate the Grace that Christ bought for us to be able to repent of that.
Nevertheless, this is not intended to be an accusation, but simply an observation that if we spend time trying to be pleasing to the world – who cannot help but contradict themselves (i.e. #1 and #2) – then we will fail to be pleasing to God who wants to build us up to be useful for reaching them. The current state of God’s removal of the chaff from Church seems to be the greatest evidence of this.
Sola Gratia,
Alan
Thom,
Thanks for your great work. I’ve read most though not all of the responses and i’m wondering how large your response field was. I know you said it is not scientific, but a staff member sent this to me with a sense that if you said it it must be so. Is there any hard data on the subject? We stopped doing a meet and greet a couple of years ago when church growth experts decided it is a negative, even though i never sensed it to be so. However, there is one aspect that i have not seen addressed. When we did it, especially right before i preach, it had a noticeably positive effect on the overall atmosphere. It seemed to serve as a sweet transition between lofty and great worship and serious listening. Also, i was wondering if it is more likely to receive responses from people with negative feelings than otherwise? Finally, i was on sabbatical this past July and visited many services. The only time i was uncomfortable with meet and greet was when i felt left out, though i would not reach out to others no matter what the pastor said. Thanks again.
Meet n greet has never been my favorite time but I have gone through the motions as it seems to be important for others. Hugging people who are not close friends is really awful for me. My wish would be that the meet n greet not be before communion. We all have been shaking hands with all sorts of people with all sorts of levels of cleanliness and possible colds. We then put our unwashed hands in the communal tray of bread. Not a huge issue. Just wish it were different.
The point really doesn’t matter as I rarely attend church any more as it is just too deafeningly loud.
For each church leader who is doing their best or even those who are just trying, I am sorry because I know that for most of you, your heart is in the right place. In order to keep a good relationship going with your fellow members on the platform, you can not say a whole lot about the volume level and you need to be encouraging. From my non-church-attending self, thanks for trying.