Podcast Episode #079
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Unfortunately not all leaders of churches or Christian ministries act in the most Christ-like of ways. Some of these leaders, despite the Christian mission of the group they lead, create extremely toxic environments. Their leadership then hinders the growth of the church or ministry, and, if left uncorrected, often runs it into the ground. So this week on the podcast, we discuss the traits found in these leaders and what to do if you are one or work for one.
Some highlights from the episode:
- There is a dark side to Christian leadership, and we should address these issues in the open.
- As Christian leaders, we should exemplify the fruit of the Spirit.
- The level of accountability in Christian leadership should be higher than that of secular leaders.
- Toxic leaders get their joy by putting others down.
- Toxic leaders rarely try to develop people. They use them up and cast them aside.
- The more clear you are in your communication, the more you reveal who you really are.
The 14 traits we cover are:
- They rarely demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit.
- They seek a minimalist structure of accountability.
- They expect behavior of others they don’t expect of themselves.
- They see almost everyone else as inferior to themselves.
- They show favoritism.
- They have frequent anger outbursts.
- They say one thing to some people, but different things to others.
- They seek to dismiss or marginalize people before they attempt to develop them.
- They are manipulative.
- They lack transparency.
- They do not allow for pushback or disagreement.
- They surround themselves with sycophants.
- They communicate poorly.
- They are self-absorbed.
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Thom,
What a great check list for leaders who seek to safeguard and improve their own leadership. Good stuff bro!
My pastor is none of these things, but his wife is all of these things. I can say this because of numerous personal experiences I have had with her. This includes raging fits, gossip, arrogance, insincerity, and beware if you disagree with her. In contrast, the pastor is sincere, compassionate, and gracious. Even though the pastor is a good shepard, he is, in my opinion, either unable to control his wife or completely unaware of her duplicity. I believe it is more the former than the latter. I am concerned of her destroying his ministry. I wish to remain anonymous, but here is one example. When I first joined the church, they (pastor and his wife) invited anyone who did not have anywhere to go for Christmas to Christms Eve dinner at their house. I am a single mom, and I took them up on the offer. One other older couple came as well. I was told I was to sit at the kitchen table with her family (as they put it, crazy family). Yet, they sat the older couple at the dining room table in a different room that was dressed for Christmas with them, and get this…with MY 1 yr old and 3yr old. Obviously, my children ended up with me in the kitchen because they didn’t know these people. Ultimately, the pastor allowed that to happen. That was only my first experience. I have had many other experiences with her as well. I tried to befriend her, and and I am invited to events and bday parties of the people she is friends with, also. Even now, after several years, I bring them bags of outgrown childrens clothes for their children because we are supposed to support the pastor’s family, and I am glad to do it. An article on this phenomenon would be great!
Faith Love Hope (great name!) – Unfortunately, the “Jezebel Spirit” is still alive and well on planet earth. Most usually manifested in women, but not limited to that gender … sometimes displayed by church deacons! These traits, while manifested in the flesh, are spiritual problems often encountered in organized religion … characterized by control, manipulation, and intimidation. “Jezebels” (whether they be male or female) still have their way in 21st century church because church leadership won’t confront them … requires prayer and Matthew 18 discipline, which most church folks find too tacky to handle. Attempts to counsel Jezebel usually fail – she needs reproof, rebuke and correction.
You can read all about Jezebel and her domination over her husband Ahab in 1 and 2 Kings (both were bad actors). It didn’t end well for either Jezebel or Ahab when they mishandled the things of God.
Thank you so much for your post and support! I think you are right on, sadly. I have learned to just keep my distance. In regards to the article, I feel that it is important to note that even though pastor’s wives are not considered leadership, they are in the sphere of influence. They can chose to use that influence for good, and I hope they do.
Good Lord! You’ve just described an SBC church planter near me! As Ron notes, “a great checklist” for self-evaluation … but also a good tool for folks in the pew to use as they evaluate the pulpit. Thanks!
I joined and served in a church for four years. To my horror, I find that the pastor is a toxic leader, demonstrating all 14 of the symptoms you discussed. It came to my attention as the result of a building project he and his board brought for a congregational vote. He and his board rigged the voting procedure to assure passage. Without going into detail, he used intimidation, coercion, abuse of power and lies to accomplish his desired outcome. When I confronted him about his behavior, going the Matthew 18 route, he responded with excuses, denials, and attacks upon me in a meeting where he also included four of his five elders, whom he had primed to back him up. I have looked more closely at what is occurring out of the sight of the average member of the congregation. He and his elders, whom he hand-picks, of course, have revised the by-laws to make him the sole decision-maker, and the elder board a consent entity, and the congregation’s sole role is to esteem the pastor. They have no role whatever in church governance matters, they are not allowed to raise an issue, nor bring any matter up for vote. Anyone who disagrees with the pastor is marginalized. Usually, they end up just disappearing from the church. Additionally, the pastor has complete control and discretion over the church finances, and his wife is the church treasurer. There is no oversight, the collections are in the custody of the pastor’s wife at all times until she counts them and banks them. My concern is for the congregation who are lovely and trusting people, but unsophisticated in church governance matters, This pastor has taken great advantage of their lack of sophistication. I have to admit that I did not know what I now know, either. When I joined the church, I did not ask for the by-laws nor were they offered. And they are not available to the congregation, unless one asks for them. This is an independent church with no accountability structure over the pastor. Advice?
“… intimidation, coercion, abuse of power and lies …”
Lia, these are not spiritual gifts!
You have described a minister and ministry out of God’s will. The situation you describe is, unfortunately, characteristic of some churches with elder-rule governance rather than congregational polity. You have noted that your attempt at Matthew 18 discipline fell on deaf ears by church leadership. This coupled with no accountability oversight for the pastor and his un-Christlike behavior presents a serious situation for you and other members of the church. Your spiritual growth will be hindered there.
Advice? You are essentially faced with balancing “forsake not the assembling of yourselves together” with “come out from her so that you will not share in her sins.” I’m sure it was difficult for you to confront your pastor, but you had every right to do so. You’ve done all you can do. Look for where God is working and join Him there.
Is this actually what is happening or is this just your perception. If this is the case I apologize for this response, 21 years of ministry have revealed that many people outside of leadership read into and interpret things without having all the facts. There appears to be a tendency to say the pastor is doing things that he is not or portray the pastor as a toxic leader when in fact he is not. If you have spoken with your pastor about your concerns and have heard his heart, reasoning, a passion for ministry and you still perceive this to be reality then by all means conclude he is unhealthy, but if you are just projecting your feelings on what you see outwardly without investigation then by all means go and talk with your pastor and please don’t tell people how toxic he is until you discern his way operating by talking and praying with him.
Thank you, Pastor Thom. Great podcast! If I could add another thought to your 14… I have also personally seen a pattern of toxic leaders refusing to cooperatively work with, or simply ignore/marginalize, older or more experienced teammates, especially in their area of expertise. In a sadly complementary way, I’ve also witnessed a consistent desire to hire only young/”green” teammates with little or no previous experience to surround the toxic leader. It seems that these tendencies allow the toxic leader to remain the resident expert on almost every aspect of the org or ministry. Not a recipe for long-term organizational or ministry health! Thanks again for speaking on this important topic.
” … ignore/marginalize, older or more experienced … hire only young/”green” teammates …”
Rachel – This appears to be a pattern in some SBC church plants. When a young “lead pastor” recruits like-minded “elders” in their 20s-30s, it is indeed “not a recipe for long-term organizational or ministry health.” A healthy church needs the wisdom of age coupled with the energy of youth; young folks to speed things up with old folks to slow it down a bit. It didn’t work out well for Rehoboam or Israel when he rejected the wisdom of experienced counselors for the advice of the young folks he grew up with (1 Kings 12).
Well said, Max.
Very good checklist for church leadership. I always say the cream and the crap will rise to the top. When put under pressure this will be the case for Church Leadership. God will not be mocked.
Amen Julia! About your rising to the top comment, there appears to be more of the latter than the former in 21st century church. There’s a stench drifting toward heaven … and it ain’t pleasing.
Interesting subject. I have one main caveat with the article though. I think we all have a tendency to “see” all fourteen in those we hate. For example, I am quite sure there is someone out there who would say I have some of those things because they didn’t like me as a pastor and/or preacher. There are others who would laugh and be shocked that someone would think that about me. I’m not disagreeing with the overall assessment here. In fact, I believe it to be quite true. But, reading the comments prompts me to caution us to not come to quick judgment. Sometimes your experience with someone didn’t go well because they simply had a bad day or were going through a tough personal season. But, the bad experience didn’t sit well with you and if you aren’t careful you can let that taint everything else about that person. Pretty soon you are sure you see all fourteen on the list in their lives. I guess my main point is that we need to have humility, not bitterness or vengeance, when we have a less than favorable opinion of someone.
Chirs– Yes, I told myself that she might be having a bad day over and over and over again. But, the many times I have been with her inside and outside of church over several years, discounts that. Usually, there is a great amount of duplicity involved. People like this are not always like that (sweet, smiling, I Love You’s). And then cycle with the fits, put downs, gossip, even publicly sometimes. Draws you in then discards you if you disagree with them at all. I believe that it is a spiritual problem but borderlines on possible mental illness like narcissism. Above lists the extreme behaviors in action (shows, seeks, says, lacks, does not allow). She has done these things in front of and to others also. My one mature christian confidant says there are quite a few, even deacons, who do not like her because of these things. She has her followers, sychophants, but that is a small group of people. I continue to go to this church because the large majority are good, sincere, loving people.
Weirdly, this list reminds me of a famous pastor who just resigned his church….We’ve experienced troubled pastor’s wives a couple of times. The result in one particular case was a pastor who actively covered for his wife’s problems to the point of flat-out lying to people, or falsely accusing them of being the problem. He purposely sought weak men to serve in leadership (men who wouldn’t disagree with him, or who were in broken family situations themselves), so that he would look stronger. It took some years to figure out what was going on, but we honestly believe his wife had Borderline Personality Disorder. She was very sneaky and manipulative and underhanded and was at the heart of 95% of the problems in the church. In another situation, the wife’s problems were lesser, but obviously attention-getting, and the pastor wouldn’t stand up to her when disagreements arose between her and church members. So what is a pastor supposed to do if he believes he’s supposed to be in the ministry, but his household is a mess? I believe he should step down and get his house/marriage in order, lest the list above begin evidencing itself increasingly in his personality and ministry, but few will do so.
Louise – See my upstream comment regarding the “Jezebel Spirit.” We sometimes write off such behavior as a personality disorder, when in fact it is a spiritual problem. Sooner or later, the pastor needs to confront this … to get his house in order, as you note … before his ministry can be effective. And sometimes, this kind cometh out only by much fasting and prayer.
In this regard, I would add #15 to Dr. Rainer’s list: “They are led by another spirit.” If a man has all 14 traits, he is not under the leadership of the Holy Spirit – he is led by the world, the flesh, or the devil.
I wonder how many churches suffer from toxic leaders? Is it a few, many, most? Just thinking.
I found this post because my toxic leader reposted from this blog about a different topic -traits of the bully church members. The elder board does not see his toxic leadership and ignore his hateful language from the pulpit. They don’t know how he has worked purposefully for nearly five years to eliminate many of those “bully” members. How do I know these things? I have worked in the office and tried to be a friend to the pastor. He has made direct comments about finding and eliminating the problem people. Said he was taught this in seminary. I keep praying the Lord will change his heart.
This is a really good list. I realise it is sometimes hard to discuss negative aspects but I found this to be helpful. I am able to see that I have some areas of growth! Thank you for sharing your heart for the life and ministry of the church.
I have one question, how does one deal with a toxic volunteer? I would imagine the process would be somewhat different? I am not in a position to be able to leave. My husband is the pastor of our church and while I know I could leave, that would separate my family and send an unhealthy message to my children. Our church leaders are also unwilling to address the toxcicity of a particular family group.
This list describes a nationally known pastor of a mega church who claims to walk in the word. He is nothing but a minion of Satan leaving in his self righteous wake broken families, destroyed and hurting people.
How well does this list of toxic traits describe the current President of the United States? Do you think Donald Trump might be expected to show some traits of leadership that others would emulate? Why does the Christian leadership of the USA not call out President Trump to answer for his deviant actions? How much should public office shield its occupants from criticism? Does a position of responsibility not require moral values and behaviour of at least average quality if not above average?