Podcast Episode #078
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William Vanderbloemen joins us this week to discuss trends in pastoral succession and hiring practices. William Vanderbloemen has been able to combine over 15 years of ministry experience as a Senior Pastor with the best practices of Executive Search to provide churches with a unique offering: a deep understanding of local church work with the very best knowledge and practices of professional executive search. William, his wife Adrienne, have seven children and live in the Houston area.
Some highlights from the episode:
- Every pastor is an interim pastor.
- The church is notorious for raising the flag at sunset.
- Succession planning is not just a corporate principle. It is highly biblical as well.
- A church is married to one man, and it’s not the pastor—it’s Jesus.
- When churches are searching out pastors, the first rule is “slow down.”
- Churches hire too fast and fire too slow.
- The most expensive hire you ever make is hiring the wrong person.
- A lot of pastors and ministers lack the basic job seeking skills and resume writing skills.
- Churches are now spending more more on fewer staff members. They have eliminated “middle management.”
- Carrying the weight of the things of God becomes too much for a man at a certain age.
- Make sure your pastor has good financial planning.
Episode Sponsor
This week’s podcast is brought to you by the book NEXT, Pastoral Succession That Works. While there is no simple, one-size-fits all solution to the puzzle of planning for a seamless pastoral succession, NEXT offers church leaders and pastors a guide to asking the right questions in order to plan for the future. Through case studies, interviews, and real time research, the Vanderbloemen and Bird demystify successful pastoral succession and help readers prepare for an even brighter future for their ministries. For more info visit westaffthechurch.com.
Feedback
If you have a question you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at ThomRainer.com. If we use your question, you’ll receive a free copy of Autopsy of a Deceased Church.
Resources
- Vanderbloemen Search Group
- NEXT: Pastoral Succession That Works
- Six Updates from Churches with Pastoral Vacancies
- FindOurLeader.com
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I work in an AGRM that has four different ministries. We have feeding ministries that provides food for people in need. Than we have a thrift store that provides quality clothing and household goods at minimal cost and provides job training for men in our men’s programs. The last two are men’s programs; the first is a Fresh Start program than provides 5-month stay for homeless men. The last ministry is a Life Change 1 year program for addictions. The problem that I see is that our executive director runs all the programs from top to bottom. He mangers in the thrift store but does not them that person have the manger authority and control to make decision on the store. The ED is also the pastor and provides all the biblical studies for the addictions program. My job is to provide emotional counseling. He also has to does everything else needs to run a nonprofit. My feeling is that he has trouble letting go of some of his power in the ministry. I understand that it takes time to fully trust people, but after couple years you should be able to trust the people you hire to run programs to make the best decision for the ministry. My question would be is there a point where leaders can over lead the ministry, and how can others help them understand that it is ok to let them run things?
Dr. Rainer,
Having perused a number of websites that post pastoral vacancies, I wanted to mention a couple of things over which I am utterly astonished.
1) The churches that “advertise” the position as full time, yet they run 50-75 in worship. I don’t see how a church that size can expect–or support–a full time pastor, especially if the pastor has children.
2) The churches that post a laundry list of (unrealistic?) expectations, yet they offer a salary that a fellow couldn’t afford to feed and clothe his family on.
Where is the disconnect? I’m having a hard time putting my finger on it. Is it simply that churches that have “always” had a full time pastor don’t want to admit that they can no longer afford to pay a full time salary?
Your thoughts?
I feel good. What I’ve gleaned from this podcast is that at 60 years old, having served as pastor in smaller churches for the past 30+ years, no equity (parsonage living), the church should ‘let me go’ so they can find someone who can make sure their church is going to grow. I’m not sure if you recommend Wal Mart greeter or “Do you want fries with that?”
Small churches can be surprisingly generous. If everyone in a small church tithes, and the building is paid for, they may do better financially than a large church with great building debt and a congregation that gives 2%. That said, if a small church can support a full-time pastor, there’s a good chance that most of the budget is also going toward that pastoral salary, with little left over for growth or outreach.
HOW so very attractive the efficiencies of the business model is to business people.
I wonder how the church managed to conquer the Roman Empire without your help?
What gives me pause is that your design for pastoral calling or longevity in the pastorate omits God.
Doesn’t Jesus Christ have something to do with the calling of a pastor and the calling of a church to “make disciples of Jesus Christ’ ? What would you have done with St John of Patmos, or The martyred Bishop of Smyrna?
You guys scare me.
What is assumed cannot be presumed.
Tell us about Jesus in this process or I am going to give up on you.
1Th 2:9 For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.
Personally I believe that a lot of these college students who are going into ministry need to obtain a skill as a way to have something to fall back on. Many of them do not and expect a comfortable job in the ministry.
Please, please, please, be careful about throwing the long time ministers of God under the bus! With the contemporary bent toward ‘youth’ (and the the approach of the Vanderbloemen organization), if the average church were to hear the words of this podcast, many of us would be terminated.
This subject has so many dimensions that a 20 minute podcast nor an ensuing comment possesses enough time, space, or influence to properly address all the related issues.
Dr. Rainer, you and I are about the same age – obviously, you have been and are a national leader while I am only a small church pastor. I pray that you’ll take great care on this subject because many of us still believe we have the vision, energy, and passion to lead, preach, and minister in the name of our Lord.
Honestly, I am deeply disturbed by much of this podcast.
I would love to hear some more discussion about a pastor staying to long in a church and retirement.
I’m a youth pastor and our church is need of revitalization. My pastor is 87 and just resigned/retried this past week. However he is going to stay til January 26th or until we find an interim or pastor(unlikely). I fear I’m the only one that sees this opportunity to revitalize and our church hasn’t looked for a pastor for 18 years. How can I help as the youth guy and what is the starting point for us?